QUESTION:
Given the criteria used to determine what would go on to constitute the New Testament canon, how is it that Hebrews and the book of Revelation remain part of the canon? I understand that Christians came to believe that they were authored by the apostles which is why they made it into the canon, but we now know that they weren’t authored by Paul or John..so why are they still in the NT?
RESPONSE:
Interesting idea! I sometimes get asked what I would exclude from the canon if given the choice, and I almost always say 1 Timothy (because of what it says about women in 2:11-15, and how the passage has been used for such horrible purposes over the years). But, well, it ain’t gonna happen. I don’t get a vote.
And that’s the problem with Hebrews and Revelation – and all the other books that were admitted when Church Fathers (wrongly) thought they were written by apostles of Jesus (in this case Paul and John). No one is going to give any of us a vote.
By way of background, it’s absolutely true that in the early church, when the proto-orthodox and then the orthodox Christian leaders who were making decisions were debating over which books to be included in Scripture…..
FOR THE REST OF MY RESPONSE, go to the Members Site. If you don’t yet belong, join!
JUN
Since you have renounced your Christian faith, what concern is it to you what is in the’canon ‘ ?
Ah, good question! (although I sense a bit of antagonism behind it!) My life is all about the Bible. So of course it matters to me. And I don’t think the Bible is simply of interest or concern to believers. It is the most important collection of books in the history of our civilizatoin. Everyone should be interested in it!
Prof. Ehrman, No I do not think we should change the canon of scripture: but the canon should be restored to the way God dictaded it. Here are two examples of what He has given me to understand.
1) The most popular verses of scripture in the New Testament without doubt belong to the Lord’s Prayer; and most of us have memorised those verses from chilhood. But young and old alike have been unaware of the lie that it contains, for in Matthew 6:13 part of it reads: “And do not lead us into temptation, but deliver us from evil.” This verse implies that God leads us into temptation, and that there’s the need to ask Him not to do that, but to deliver us from evil.
But why should we ask Him that, when we all know or should know that the evil of temptation is not in God’s character? For we read in Romans 2:4; “Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and forbearance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance.” We also read in James 1:13; “Led no one say when he is tempted, I am being tempted by God; for God cannot be tempted by evil, and He Himself does not tempt anyone. But each one is tempted when he is carried away and enticed by his own lust.” And 2Peter 2″9, has no ambiguity of the true work of the Lord for we read; “The Lord knows how to rescue the godly from temptation, and to keep the unrighteous under darkness for the Day of judgment.”
so I am only putting the record straight, in harmony with God’s true character, in accordance with His true scripture by partly restoring Matthew 6:13, to read: “And lead us into REPENTANCE and deliver us from evil.”
The above verse now reflect the true work and character of our God. After all, we are talking about our Heavenly Father, therefore, we should know what He does and doesn’t do. I am sure that an evil man, an enemy of Christ, has cleverly inserted those lies in there so they would falsely assume the power of the sacred word and prevent us from truly knowing and trusting our God and Father.
2) In Matthew 27:52-53, we trustfully read: “And the tombs were opened; and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised; and coming out of the tombs after His resurrection they entered the holy city and appeared to many.”
i believe that the above two verses report something which never took place and therefore those lies are used to divert our attention from the Lord, because it is impossible for it to have occurred before or after the resurrection of the Lord, for we read in 2Timothy 2:18 about; “Men who have gone astray from the truth saying that the resurrection has already taken place, and thus they upset the faith of some.” Also in ACTS 2:29, Peter says, “brethren, I may confidently say to you regarding the patriarch David that he both died and was buried, and his tomb is with us to this day.” So Peter effectively says some time after the day of Pentcost that the body of David is still in his tomb; (confirmed by Acts 2:30-36.) Therefore it is reasonable for us to assume that if the Body of King David did not qualify for that alleged resurrection we can be certain that it never took place. In addition to that, the numbers of anomalies that those two verses contain are also an indication that our Lord never dictated them.
Kindest Regards
Mario
Prof. Ehrman, The verses in 1Corinthians 7:32-38, have been adulterated beyond recognition, here is the way He has given me to understand them, the words in big letters are my own, also I am using the new american standard bible, but you can pompare this with your bible.
3) “But I want you to be free from concern. One who is unmarried is concerned about the things of the Lord, how he may please the Lord;
but one who is married is concerned about the things of the world, how he may please his wife, and his interests are divided.
And the woman who is unmarried, and the virgin, is concerned about the things of the Lord, that she may be holy both in body and spirit; but one who is married is concerned about the things of the world, how she may please her husband.
And this I say for your own benefit; not to put a restraint upon you, but to promote what is seemly, and to secure SOME BELIEVERS FOR AN undivided devotion to the Lord.
But if any man things that he is acting unbecomingly toward his CELIBACY, if HE should be of full age, and if it must be so, let him do what he wishes, he does not sin; let HIM marry.
But he who stands firm in his heart, being under no costraint, but has authority over his own BODY, and has decided this in his own heart, to keep his own BOBY CHASTE, he will do well.
So then both he who gives his own BODY in marriage does well, BUT he who does not give HIMSELF in marriage will do better.”
As you can see, the inserted italics are the obvious restorations needed, which enable us to understand the connection and the true intended meaning of verses 32-34. Thus if any person, male or female, is willingly prepared and able to freely undertake the sacrifice of celibacy as their sacrifice of worship, that sacrifice is acceptable to God, this is confirmed in Matthew 19:10-12. Also in Romans 12:1.
4) In Galatians 5:1, there is the phrase which reads “If was for freedom — —- — that Christ set us free;” I believe that there are three words that needes to be inserted in the midle of the phase for it to acquire substance. Do you know those words? Yes you can read the phase in context from your bible.
5) In 1Corinthins 1:28, There is another phrase which is void of substance for it reads, “and the base things of the world and the despised, God has chosen, the things that are not ——- that He might nullify the things that are.’ There is a need of one word to be inserted in the blank space for the verse to come into life. Can you do that?
You maybe thinking that I am arrogant, but that is not the case, I am trying to show you the peculiarity of the knowlege that I have received. English is my second language, I only have received a basic education. When the Lord give me understanding of His word He did not give me a universety degree also, He left me as dumb as He had found me, He left with me one more thing; A burning desire to let the world know the truth.
Prof. Ehrman, You have a dislike for 1Timothy 2:11-15, I believe that women do need an overseer.but please read this new revelation in the same apistle with an open mind. It is obvious to me that the ministry of helps or intercession is uniquely close and personal to our Lord, and like other ministry, not everyone is called or qualified to enter into this ministry, for the following scripture explains the guidelines for entering into Christ’s personal ministry. It is written in 1Timothy 5:9-15; “Let a widow be put on the list OF INTERCESSORS only if she is not less than sixty years old, having been the wife of one man, having a reputation for good works; and if she has shown hospitality to strangers, if she has assisted those in distress, and if she has devoted herself to every good work. But refuse to put younger widows on the list OF INTERCESSORS for when they feel sensual desires in disregard of Christ, they want to get married thus incurring comdemnation, because they have set aside their previous pledge. And at the same time they also learn to be idle, as they go around from house to house; and not merely idle, but also gossips and busybodies, talking about things not proper to mention, therefore, I want younger widows to get married, bear children, keep house, and give the enemy no occasion for reproach; for some have already turned aside to follow THE FLESH.”
By my inserted words in big letters in the above verses we should all be able to see a godly perspective in those scriptures, which exposes and lays bare the criteria for the establishment of the intercession ministry in the church.
If you are wondering what that previous pledge is, you should know that the pledge necessary to enter the intercession ministry is to undertake to crucify the flesh with its passions and desires. That is to say, they have pledged to follow Jesus’ holiness with body and spirit. So now we can all understand why older proven godly women are more suitable to the task. In Luke 2:36-37 we read; “And there was a prophetess, Anna the daughter of Phanuel, of the tribe of Asher. She was advanced in years, having lived with a husband seven years after her marriage, and then as a widow to the age of eighty-four. And she never left the temple, serving (interceding) night and day with fasting and prayers.” The above verses contain among other things the fact that Anna had only one husband. strange as it may seem 1Timothy 5:9 makes this a condition in order to be included on the list of intercessors.
So you see Bart why 1timothy had to be part of the canon.
Mario