(13 votes, average: 4.69 out of 5)
Loading...Now *this* isn’t the kind of interview I get asked to do every day! Hanny Seylim is a former Muslim who split his time growing up between Egypt and Ireland (a parent from each) and now lives in Melbourne. For his podcast, Critical Faculty, he interviews all sorts of critical thinkers in numerous different fields (physics to NT!). Hanny knows a *lot* about early Christianity and wanted to interview me about my work. I think this one is unusually good. Enjoy!
I’ve been thinking about Julian the Apostate and his attempts to turn back time and bring back paganism. Do you think he could have succeeded if he had had more time, or had that train sailed?
I talk about that in my book Triumph of Christianity. I’m afraid there’s no way to know, but it’s a terrific thought experiment…
Has anyone done a book in which gospel stories are actually taken horizontally/sequentially (story 1, story 2, and so on) and then minutely analyzing similarities, differences, reconcilable differences, irreconcilable differences? Making all the issues that emerge from such a reading explicit? In one handy concordance like volume? I guess one could also include examples of evolving theological views in the stories, as presented in Mark and then on into John. Great interview. Great questions, great answers, covering important points very succinctly. And I like your coffee cup.
There are many studies of passages like that. A full book woud be a full multi-volume series of books and would probably take many years to produce. And it wouldn’t be definitive since there are so many views of such things, passage by passage. But the best way to do it for yourself is simply get a Synopsis of the Four Gospels and mark it up carefully with colored pencils (words/phrases that are exaclty the same, different, at odds in various ways, etc.) THat’s what grad students in the field do.
This is a good comparison site from the University of Toronto. http://sites.utoronto.ca/religion/synopsis/
I am an ex-muslim from Turkey. I am 43 years old, I left Islam when I was 18. I was educated in all branches of islamic theology and sharia of all denominations. The problem started when I began to study other religions to convert their adherents to Islam. When I studied Hinduism I was fascinated. How could ignorant idolworshippers have such sublime philosophies? Learning Hinduism I lost my faith in Islam and began worshipping Narayana, thinking god of Islam could only be an asura (later in my studies I learned that he is the Demiurge). Studying kin religions like ancient egyptian paganism,etc I learned about Kabbalah and Gnosticism. Gnosticism really fascinated me, I knew that I found my faith. I have fallen in love with Jesus the Savior. So I am a gnostic christian, ex-muslim, living in Turkey among muslims, wishing to be martyred soon. I am oppressed by muslims for converting to christianity, a murtad kafir who must be executed and I am ostracised by local christians for being a heretic. I thank Bart Ehrman very much because by the help of his blog I can defend my beloved faith against the insults and mockery of local christians.
Metanoia
I have fallen in love with Jesus the Savior. So I am a gnostic christian, ex-muslim, living in Turkey among muslims, wishing to be martyred soon.
Steefen
I pray that you stop wishing to be martyred soon. Consider reading Historical Accuracy by Steve Campbell. After reading that book, you may likely have the wisdom that living to improve religion is more valuable than dying for a religion that needs an upgrade.
Was arguing with a Christian who said that the gospels had to be written before 70 AD, because they don’t mention the fulfilled prophecy of the destruction of Jerusalem. What do you think?
It’s teh standard argument and is usually seen as flawed. THe Gospels don’t mention the fulfillment of Jesus’ prophecy because their narratives are takingn place in Jesus’ own day; they are presented as accounts by those who were there, not by authors living later. Most scholars see the very detailed dscriptions of the fall of Jerusalem, e.g., in Luke 21, as good evidence that the authors knew about it.
Are you saying the gospel writers wanted their readers to think their writings were written before the fall of Jerusalem?
I’m saying that isn’t their concern. They are recording events that happened in the life of Jesus, not events that happened later; so they don’t describe things that happened later.
I’ve long been interested in your view of Mark’s depiction of Jesus’ death on the Cross. Here, as elsewhere, you categorize Jesus as seeming confused , in shock, not knowing what is going on. But as you point out Mark has already had Jesus predict his fate. So it seems a bit of an incongruity in the narrative.
One common solution of course is to point out that Mark is having Jesus quote the first line of Psalm 22. The thinking is that Mark expects his audience to read his crucifixion account through that lens, and in what I suppose you could regard as a first century version of hypertext, have Psalm 22 hover over the entire account. It begins as a cry a despair but it doesn’t end there. The reader is expected to work through the process of grief to acceptance and ultimately to salvation. That would seem to square with Jesus’ foreknowledge of his fate.
Do you disagree with this reading? What is the relationship if any between Mark’s account of the death of Jesus and Psalm 22?
Thanks!
Yes, that’s a common reading of the cry of dereliction. I have to say I do disagree with it. I don’t think it isfundtioning as a hypertext in terms of sowing that Jesus really knew it would be OK (as he does in Luke). I think Mark genuinely portrays Jesus in utter despair. For me, the narrative loses it’s meaning otherwise.
On the subject of Psalm 22 and Mark’s dying Jesus, I think all sides should be able to agree that Mark is portraying Jesus as being in emotional, as well as physical, agony. That could hardly be *more* harmonious with Christian faith. What Jesus understood intellectually, as opposed to emotionally, is not Mark’s concern. “Why have you forsaken me” is not an intellectual question. People can then read additional nuance into why Jesus quotes the psalm in particular: that he is clinging to it for comfort in the midst of his agony is one option. But whatever *else* Mark is trying to convey, he is obviously conveying Jesus in emotional, psychological agony, and everyone from atheist to evangelical should find common ground in acknowledging that fact.
“I don’t know” about God or its existence is related to your understanding on human sufferings that may have hit you hard. Do you think you are being fair, especially for a person who use intelligence, to link suffering with your current stand on God? Is it right for you to impose what God should do and not do?
Do you think it is logical to deny the existence of God on a single criterion — suffering?
Do you believe there are positives on sufferings?
Suffering is subjective. I know many who we assume they are suffering but in reality when we ask them generally the answer is not the case. Perhaps, they accept it willingly as part and parcel of life and perhaps their poor standard of living make them feel it is o.k. and it don’t affect them badly.
The don’t suffer the way you make yourself to believe. Just look at the places hit by tsunami and they are back to normal.
What do you think of a prophet in OT who you felt suffered badly but in reality, he accepted it willing and naturally without the feeling of suffering?
Yes, I do think my view is fair and logical. To say that places hit by tusnamis return to normal is, for me at least, insensitive toward, and certainly does not take seriously, the 300,000 people who were horribly killed by it, as if all that is OK since now there are other people who live there who have not been drowned.
Bart, being fair is not a quality that is applicable to your view, and here is why: leaving aside the question of the existence or not of God, fairness would require you to also attribute all of the positive things you see in the world and yourself to your argument against a God that in your opinion is only accountable for the suffering that you subjectively judge to be all around you.
So of course you think your view is fair and logical – though being aware of cognitive biases and dissonances will also lead most of us to the conclusion that you have spent most of your life filtering out any evidence that would have caused a more fair-minded person to reconsider their position.
I’ll close with a final question to you – what would a fair person decide to do about this:
“We are determined to end poverty and hunger, in all their forms and dimensions, and to ensure that all human beings can fulfil their potential in dignity and equality and in a healthy environment.”
And if you can help this goal become a reality by the year 2030?
Transforming our world: the 2030 Agenda for Sustainable Development https://sdgs.un.org/2030agenda
Oh yes, I take very, very seriously all the positive things in the world. They too need to be explained. I completely agree with that. .I”m not sure you’v actually read my book on the problem of suffering, but it you did you would understand my views better
As to what my goals with respect to poverty are: you do know why I do this blog don’t you?
The Kingdom Of God (Islam) Has the solution for poverty but unfortuntely all islamic countries not applying the rules fully currently thats why we dont have a living example. however at the time it was applied especially during caliph umar bin Abdul Aziz. People didnt want to accept the charities because the economy became balanced.
The solution is:
1.making all interest and usuary illegal. Because interest causes economical Gap with few rich people and alot of middle, and poor people.
2. Zakat (Obligatory charity per year) its details are in the book below page 138
https://darpdfs.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/Important-Lessons-For-Every-Muslim-by-Sh.-Ibn-Baaz-Exp.-by-Sh.-Haytham-Sarhaan-2.pdf
Thanks for this. I’ll be happy to continue posting comments about Islam (or Buddhism, or B’hai, or anyother tradition anyone is interested in) so long as they relate directly to the interests of the blog: the historical study of the NT and early Christianity. I do not want to get in to a contest of religions or religious views here.
Ibrahim, without getting too deeply into why I agree with you, let’s say that I also find Bart’s views on suffering to be lacking to put it mildly – and to use his words, I believe they do not stand up well to any serious attempt to evaluate them with criteria like ‘fair and logical’.
Evidence follows:
“We are determined to end poverty and hunger, in all their forms and dimensions, and to ensure that all human beings can fulfil their potential in dignity and equality and in a healthy environment.
“We are determined to protect the planet from degradation, including through sustainable consumption and production, sustainably managing its natural resources and taking urgent action on climate change, so that it can support the needs of the present and future generations.
“We are determined to ensure that all human beings can enjoy prosperous and fulfilling lives and that economic, social and technological progress occurs in harmony with nature.
“We are determined to foster peaceful, just and inclusive societies which are free from fear and violence.
“There can be no sustainable development without peace and no peace without sustainable development.”
Transforming our world: the 2030 Agenda for Sustainable Development
https://sdgs.un.org/2030agenda
I”m not sure where you’re disagreeing with me, since I very much have these same determinations.
Dr Ehrman,
A bit off topic for this thread but Is there any thread where you talk about Mary, Mother of Jesus in detail?
1. Her role in the Jesus story ?
2. How and when was she Deified?
3. Was she considered among Jesus female disciples?
4. Was she ever a part of Trinitarian Formula for early Xs?
I don’t believe I ever have! Maybe I should!
It would be fantastic Thread.
Hope you start it soon.
Looking forward to it especially “WHY”, “HOW” and “WHEN” she was Deified?
Right! But I”m afraid all that happens after the period of my expertise!
I’m not sure that “deified” is an accurate characterization of Mary. Even Theotokos is still not Theo.
In many ( most?) religions, there are spirits who are not God but are not human, or who were once human but are now spirit.
what was the Good news or the Gospel jesus used to preach? is it considered by Jesus to be a revelation given to him?
His good news was that God was soon to intervene in history to overthrow the forces of evil and brig in a good kingdom to earth. Good times will come, for those who believe and do good works. And it’s hard to know what he thought in side his own head, but it does appear that he felt this was a message from God.
I found ibn taymiyah saying that he found the statment below in scripture
John reported that Christ said, “The Prince of the world
shall come, and nothing is for me.”
However I didnt find it in the bible.
Is it mentioned in the manuscripts?
No, I don’t believe that saying is in the Gospels.
John 14:30
Its a mistranslation in Al-Jawab Al-Sahih that “John reported”s, its actually Gospel of John
“Bring in a good kingdom to earth”? Hardly. Read John 18:36 carefully. You are part of the disinformation system that is ‘Christianity.’ Damn it to hell! The ‘Kingdom’ hadn’t A THING to do with this world — then or now, thank God.
MayI share my thoughts with you regarding the coming good kingdom to earth because by reading mark 12 the parable of the wicked tenant I understood what happened by connecting information we havethank
Did Jesus peace be upon him and the prophets before him wanted from the children of israel to be part of this coming Good Kingdom to help and support this Good kingdom against The forces of evil ? and did jesus peace be upon when he came he told them they have to repent and get ready to be part of this knigdom and help it against evil?
Yes, he was urging the people of Israel to repent in light of the coming kingdom of God when all evil would be destroyed; those who did not repent in preparation for the kingdom would be destroyed with all others who refused to return to God.
I think thats refering to When Jesus peace be upon him Will Descend upon the kingdom of God on Earth (Islam) to Kill the evil false Messiah and after gog and magog will be defeated by a worm that attack their necks. Jesus peace be upon him will descend to judge mankind justly (as a Just Ruler) then All the people of The Book would believe That Jesus Is The Jewish King a prophet sent by God And Peace will prevail and there will be no poverty and no one will accept charity. But Im not sure if the verses that says that all evil will be destroyed meant at the end of times.
The description of the kingdom of God you mentioned matches What the prophet and his companions were upon
46. Wealth and children are the adornment of the life of this world. But the good righteous deeds (five compulsory prayers, deeds of Allah’s obedience, good and nice talk, remembrance of Allah with glorification, praises and thanks, etc.), that last, are better with your Lord for rewards and better in respect of hope.
Al-Kahf | Qur’ān Chapter 18
76. Those who believe, fight in the Cause of Allah, and those who disbelieve, fight in the cause of Taghut (Satan, etc.). So fight you against the friends of Shaitan (Satan); Ever feeble indeed is the plot of Shaitan (Satan).
An-Nisa’ | Qur’ān Chapter 4
9. He it is Who has sent His Messenger (Muhammad SAW) with guidance and the religion of truth (Islamic Monotheism) to make it victorious over all (other) religions even though the Mushrikun (polytheists, pagans, idolaters, and disbelievers in the Oneness of Allah and in His Messenger Muhammed SAW) hate (it).
As-Saff | Qur’ān Chapter 61
the fullfilment of another prophacy which is the paradise on earth
I heard the Shaykh of Islam, Ibn Taymiyyah – may Allah sanctify his soul – say, “Truly, there is a Heaven in this world, [and] whoever does not enter it, will not enter the Heaven of the next world.” And once he said to me, “What can my enemies do to me? I have in my breast both my Heaven and my garden. If I travel they are with me, and they never leave me. Imprisonment for me is a religious retreat (khalwa). To be slain for me is martyrdom (shahadah) and to be exiled from my land is a spiritual journey (siyaha).”
the link continues to talk about Heaven of this World
https://sunnahonline.com/library/purification-of-the-soul/218-heaven-of-this-world-the
Did jesus give Good news of A certain Man to come?
He spoke of the Son of Man coming in judgment on the earth, yes.
No, HE DID NOT. Show me where he says ANYTHING about the kingdom or ‘judgment’ happening “on earth.”
I think Mark 8:38-9:1 indicates that fairly clearly; Mark 13 and its Synoptic parallels even more so.
John 16:13 (NKJV)
However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come.
The spirit of Truth is the angle (Gabriel) responsible for guidance and revealing God Words. so the verse is refering To The Messiah who will recieve revelation in Paran who will establish the long awaited Kingdom of God. So The Spirit of Truth Will Descend upon The messiah son of man (Muhammad peace be upon him)to Guide into all truth.
And Sier before paran was the revelation given to Jesus peace be upon him. His revelation was The Good news of the Coming Last Prophet and his companions The Best nation brought forth for mankind. Jesus peace be upon him was not crucified someone else got crucified that was made to resemble jesus. So jesus peace be upon him will Descend to rule in the kingdom of God(Islam)
English – Muhsin Khan & Taqi-‘ud-Din
105. Surely, We have sent down to you (O Muhammad SAW) the Book (this Quran) in truth that you might judge between men by that which Allah has shown you (i.e. has taught you through Divine Inspiration), so be not a pleader for the treacherous.
An-Nisa’ | Qur’ān Chapter 4
sorry for refering to scripture that you might not want me to refer to. But i just saw the many connection of The Son of Adam and Muhammad peace be upon him. its starting to all make sense For The Gospel and The Good news talking about transfering Prophethood to the children of ishmael making the messiah Muhammad. Thats why the jews called jesus peace be upon him the second balaam. Truly Jesus peace be upon him will descend to rule in the kingdom of God that the son of Man established.
Dr. Bart D ehrman
have you read the book by PROF. DAVID BENJAMIN KELDANI B.D., a Roman Catholic (BISHOP OF URAMIAH )titled MUHAMMAD IN THE BIBLE?
The author of this book –Mohammad1 in the Bible
Prof .Abdul-Ahad Dawud. former Rev.David Benjamin Keldani B.D.
a Roman Catholic , (BISHOP OF URAMIAH ) was a great scholar.
He was specialist in Christianity and judism.
He mastered many languages(Aramic,Hebrow,Seryani,
English and Arabic, ) which helped him in his Search.
No, I’m afraid not.
Im trying to write about suffering for you so may you explain to me everything about it.when someone lacks information About the creator, Evil thoughts starts coming to him about the creator.
Thanks. But this blog is not about the “truth” about the Creator. It is about the historical study of early Christianity. No one here is trying to convince others of the truth of their particular religious views. There are other blog sites (lots of them!) that do that.
IF PROF. DAVID BENJAMIN KELDANI Former BISHOP OF URAMIAH the one who mastered many languages(Aramic,Hebrow,Seryani,English and Arabic, ) Has Correct points on what he is claiming About prophet Muhammad peace be upon him then We can consider finding alot about The Historical Jesus Peace be upon him and early christianity. we will figure out why the jews really wanted kill jesus peace be upon him , why christians dont have the revelation of God to Jesus the Gospel.the Forgeries done by scribes.what message the gospel contains
in his Book MUHAMMAD IN THE BIBLE he discuss the following
– The question of birthright and the covenant(through who will the seed of Abraham be numbered as the stars Isaac or Ishmael peace be upon all the prophets through who will the Kingdom of God on earth be established)
– “And the Ahmed(pbuh) of all nations will come HAGGAI, ii.7
– MUHAMMAD IS THE “SHILOH” Genesis 49:10
– By the Apocalyptical “Son of Man, ” Muhammad(pbuh) is Intended
– King David(pbuh) calls him “My Lord”
– The Lord and the apostle of the Covenant
– Islam/Peace is the Kingdom of God on earth
– “Eudokia” means Ahmadiyah”
– Etc Etc
Dear Dr. Bart D Ehrman
the link below has the story of Heraclius investigating about Muhammad peace be upon him
https://sunnah.com/bukhari:7
good evening Dr Bart D Ehrman
please do we know historically who was youngest among the 12 disciples?
thank you
I would like to apologize to you I got carried away by my emotions.
No, we have no historical record of their ages. The *tradition* indicated that John was very young at the time, but nothing in the NT suggests it.
Good evening Dr Bart D Ehrman
i read after jesus peace be upon him ascension to heaven three early groups formed Jacobites,Nestorians They collaborated against the third group and annihilated it. Thank you
No, I’m afraid there is nothing to suggest that happened.
History of the Prophets and Kings
Book by al-Tabari it mentions history of jesus peace be upon him it starts from pg 990 tnx
https://archive.org/details/HistoryAlTabari40Vol/History_Al-Tabari_20_Vol
https://archive.org/details/HistoryAlTabari40Vol
Volume four page 112
or page 990 on archive viewer
Im really excited to share our heritage about jesus peace be upon him and his followers during his mission.We have exegesis of ibn kathir on quran.It will certainly give a clearer vision to the past.
i think The historical reality is that the one intended to fullfill the prophacies was peraqlytos and jesus peace be upon him wanted the jews to repent and be part of the kingdom of God and support paraqlytos. for They will subdue the persians the romans they will take over babylon and egypt. fullfiling the promise of God to abraham that from his offspring the land from euphrates river to nile river will all soon worship the true God of Abraham, Noah and Adam. And Jesus as we believe will descend and rule in the kingdom of God that paraqlytos established. peace be upon all the prophets.
in the book MUHAMMAD IN THE BIBLE
by PROF. DAVID BENJAMIN KELDANI B.D., a Roman Catholic (BISHOP OF URAMIAH )
He wrote his thoughts regarding Apocalypses
and Shiloh etc i think he has some correct points i dont think all what he says is correct because he is human we all make mistakes and learning never ends.
https://d1.islamhouse.com/data/en/ih_books/chain/en_Muhammad_In_The_Bible/en_Muhammad_In_The_Bible_Full.pdf
Professor Ehrman,
In your books that I have read so far and in some of your videos and interviews I have noticed you often write about or mention your early “born again” experience and your fundamentalist beliefs in your teens and early twenties.
Your scholarship and studies almost completely disassemble these core beliefs of the Fundamentalists… from the Bible being the “infallible Word of God,” the Trinity, the Virgin Birth, to the existence of heaven and hell just to name a few tenets of their faith.
When one strips these core tenets away from Christianity and the Christian perspective of Jesus doesn’t this play out as a kind of religious Jenga-like game where the ability to maintain this structural belief system loses all support?
In other words don’t we discover a human Jesus, an apocalyptic figure similar to John the Baptist and one who is very different from how Jesus is portrayed in the Bible or by the Evangelical’s?
Which Jesus is the one that holds sway in our culture and churches… the apocalyptic, anti-Roman Palestinian Jew or the culturally created icon?
In addition who has influenced the core tenets of Evangelical’s… the historical Jesus or the culturally created Messiah?
Thank you for your time.
I devote the Conclusion my book Jesus BEfore the Gospels to just this question, and argue that the actual “historical” Jesus did not make history. The “remembered” Jesus did. But of course htere is not one Jesus that is a culturally created icon. There are thousands, maybe millions.
Thank you for sharing your knowledge.
Just ordered ‘Jesus Before the Gospels’ because of your conclusion in the book that the actual “historical” Jesus did not make history.
The “remembered” Jesus did.
Wow! That is so powerful for me.
Also it makes so much sense that there is not one Jesus that is a culturally created icon but countless ones. Again… powerful insight into something I was clueless to being saturated with the concepts handed to me by sincere but misinformed souls growing up.
If so many of the basic tenets of Christianity cannot withstand historical scrutiny where does this leave this group who follow Hal Lindsey to the late Tim LaHaye and their doctrines about the Rapture?
I have heard these “End Time” claims by various “Bible experts” my entire life and once again they are pushing ideas that hold no more validity than “British Israelism” or the idea of a flat earth.
Your scholarship and honesty is truly a “voice in the wilderness” for me. I am even more impressed you are sharing what many in your profession know but for whatever reason have failed to present it to those like me in this wilderness of cultural misinformation on the “remembered” Jesus.
Hi Bart
Your discussion of William Lane Craig and Christian apologists in this video is very interesting. Apart from the questionable historical arguments which you discuss, do you feel there is also a fundamental contradiction in Christian apology philosophically? You may have addressed this somewhere?
For example, are the gospels the account of mortals rationally transmitting real stories of eye witness accounts? (goal of apology) If so, does this not weaken the argument that the texts themselves are divine origin and inerrant theologically? (the goal of Christianity) Did God actually project manage the content of the gospels, or did they simply come from a compilation of eye witnesses? If a real miracle working God made the gospels inerrant, why would anyone expect regular historical criteria to reveal anything about their provenance? By contrast, if such texts can be understood using historical criteria, how can the very same texts be the actual word of God and the product of a divine miracle?
Do you feel that this line of argument is sound or can the Christian apologist have their cake and eat it? You might address this type of argument somewhere in your writings or videos? I’m sure you could explain it far more deeply than me.
INteresting questions. My sense is that apologists think the answer is “both / and,” so that the work of God can be assumed and proved, since he “works in history.” THat would mean that one can see the historical traces of his work. It really is a very much post-Enlightenment project, and a bit odd and underappreciated just how much the Enlightenment has affected Christian faith (since now it can be “objectively proved”)
Thanks very much. I never considered the post-enlightenment influence on Christian apology. Interesting…
Its interesting how Heraclius Says as mentioned in the link that the followers of the prophets are The poor people. I wonder if he meant that this very type of people the Ebionites were the ones who believed in Jesus peace be upon him.
https://sunnah.com/bukhari:7
THe term Ebionite is debated. Some church fathers said that the group was named after a man named Ebion. Others pointed out that the term ebyon means “poor” in Hebrew, and claimed these people were “poor in faith” (!). BUt another theory is that these followrs of JEsus took on voluntary poverty in imitation of Jesus and so were called “those who are poor.”
Islam relates to the subject of early christianity and is very well connected mark12 and the parable of the mustard seed indicate that prophethood will be taken from the jews and to be given to this new powerful kingdom to come. previous revelations of god got altered by scribes but they still have some truths. I sent an email titled (A search That proves Jesus over powered the Jews). i have matched mark12 and the parable of the mustard seed with what we have.Its a big blessing to have a great scholar who we can communicate with and i hoping you would see the connection that i compiled in the email. Im hoping that if you give me a chance to be with you in your blog that you would see what historically really happened. thank you
“Thanks for this. I’ll be happy to continue posting comments about Islam (or Buddhism, or B’hai, or anyother tradition anyone is interested in) so long as they relate directly to the interests of the blog: the historical study of the NT and early Christianity. I do not want to get in to a contest of religions or religious views here.”
The relationship between the solution for poverty in the following two rules(obligatory charity as detailed/and making usuary illegal) is that Jesus peace be upon him will rule with the rules of the kingdom of God on earth when he descends on it. and after everyone enters the kingdom of god and the rules are applied peace will prevail and evil will be destroyed. and there will be no poverty when he rules. I think Thats linked to historical study of the NT and early Christianity.
one of the things we share in common is the story of the seven sleepers in the cave. the whole chapter is titled alkahf which means the cave. I wonder if we there is scripture or a Gospel found in that cave.
https://noblequran.com/surah-al-kahf/
hercalius said: “If what you have said is true, he will very soon occupy this place underneath my feet and I knew it (from the scriptures) that he was going to appear but I did not know that he would be from you, and if I could reach him definitely, I would go immediately to meet him and if I were with him, I would certainly wash his feet.”
I dont know How Herclius knew from the scripture that the prophet will occupy jerusalem maybe the vineyard parable represent jerusalem.Idk
It seems like hercalius Had The Gospel That jesus peace be upon him used to preach.
is there similarities between the gospel of john and the gospel of james and the ebionites because I think there is research that states Gospel of john could be from the Gospel Jesus Used to preach Idk maybe the gospel of Hebrews.
thank you
https://sunnah.com/bukhari:7
We don’t have a Gospel of James.
when the jews told the king of their time about jesus peace be upon him and about the Good news he is conveying. Did they consider the Good news to be threatening to their empire. Did they try to crucify him then the good news became that he died for sins. What else was changed about the Good news to cover it. should the cover ups and the tampering of text about the kingdom of God make scholars think that all those prophacies made from righeous prophets throughout history that the prophets were lying or deluded. bible scholars uncovered alot and I hope a bible scholar would consider to exchange information with a scholars from the kingdom of God on Earth to solve the puzzle. thanks
Sorry — I’m having trouble understanding what you’re asking. Maybe ask one question at a time and make it as clear as you can?
Dr. Ehrman….I just watched this video with Hanney Seylim. I was very taken with your statement at about 52:00 regarding why you stopped believing in a kind and loving God who is involved in our world here on earth. I agreed with every word you said. I am 74, a seeker all my life. Participated in several religions, returned to Christianity about 6 yrs ago but I just cannot abide the Jewish God of the Bible, nor the words from Jesus in the Bible about souls going to hell. I’m a retired family counselor, had the honor of seeing the suffering in hundreds of lives. Myself, I’ve had 13 yrs of daily severe incurable pain. No, like you I see no evidence of a caring God at work on this planet. My prayers for relief have never been answered. I am done asking higher powers for help. No one listening. I thank you for all your work and I respect your conclusions greatly .
since the good news is that the good kingdom that will destroy forces of evil. Did The roman king consider the the Gospel threatening to his empire
I don’t think anyone — including the Roman authorities — ever imagined it could be a serious threat, no. It was more of a joke, like if your next door neighbor threatened to take on the U.S. Marine Corps…. BUt Romans didn’t take kindly to anyone claiming to be the next king. THey simply tortured them to death publicly. THat kept most people from claiming to be the next king.
the reason why i thought the romans took the good news as a threat is that the Good news was supported By miracles that only can be done by God. Because magic cannot create a real bird. Also magic is associated with sinners and wicked people and satan. and i think jesus never even sinned ounce. and I think the reason the jews rejected jesus is that they want The messiah That would rule from the descendant of David and that would happen when he descends and returns. The other reason i think they rejected jesus is that jesus told them God will Take away prophet Hood(kingdom) from them and give it to a nation that will be fruitful and as God promised Abraham that Ishmael will be Fruitful. The jews rejected the “Corner Stone” ie parakleetos and didnt want to be part of the coming kingdom of God as explained in mark 12.
Thank you
Are you talking about what actually happened in the life of Jesus? As a historian I don’t think Jesus actually did any miracles, so the Romans were not seeing him as a threat because of his power.
yes im talking about what actually happened in the life of jesus peace be upon him.
Do we have recorded history of what happened during Jesus time? if so who wrote the history were they jews or romans who disbleived in jesus ? becauase their history would be bias.
im not saying the romans were seeing jesus as a threat becauase of jesus power.
im saying the good news was the powerful kingdom that would destroy the beasts. one of them was the roman beast. in the mustard seed parable the powerful kingdom is described as this tall strong plant that birds can nest on top. that description is exactly the description of parakleetos companions. They historicaly fought againsts the beasts and evil that were mentioned in daniel vision and other books.
im not sure if the romans were afraid of such good news or not. but it makes sense that they want to kill someone who is saying there will be a powerful kingdom that will overthrow evil. I dont think Jesus said he will overthrow the romans. and if thats recorded about him thats to make jesus look ridiculus.
Our only substantial sources for the life of JEsus comes to us in the surviving Gospels. If you’re interested in seeing what their problems are as sources, and what we can say about the historical JEsus, I’d suggest starting with my book, “Jesus: Apcalyptic Prophet of the New Millennium.”
When were the three Gospels written mark matthew luke ? under which empire and which political position? If it was written under The Romans rule Then The Good news of the powerful kingdom will be made as if the promise to never would happen. they would make jesus say somthing that this kingdom didnt come to save jesus disciples.
I believe Historian are searching for what actually happened. And historical records could be bias. There is a way to find out what exactly happened. Im saying Islam is the Kingdom of God that Jesus gave Good news About The description fits exactly PROF. DAVID BENJAMIN KELDANI wrote about that in his book. Therefore if there is strong evidence that the kingdom of God is islam. then islam has the historical record of what happened.
Yes, they were written in the Roman empire. The usual dates: Mark: 70 CE; Matthew and Luke 80-85 CE; John 95 CE. ANd yes, you are stating the Islamic view. IT is not the view held by anyone who is not Muslim.
i think some jews and romans saw jesus peace be upon him performing miracles but they accused him of doing magic instead. So Jesus peace be upon him Did do things which is not normally can be done by anyone. christians would say cause he is divine,as for the Jews who rejected Muhammad peace be upon him the cornerstone,the master of david and the adon of all prophets of the true God,The chosen Child Of all Adam Children(Son of Man),The Shiloh,The Savior whom they Rejected,The one who will speak against them, The lord of Sabbath, The Praised one (Ahmed) of all nations they rejected the Goodnews of Muhammad peace be upon him comming and accused Jesus peace be upon him the one giving Glad tidings of performing magic.while its crystal clear what magic looks like and what miracles are.and magicians worship satan while jesus peace be upon him worshipped God Alone and called to Good actions.Jesus peace be upon him will rule in the kingdom of God Islam when he descends.
was it not that jesus himself was a muslim and so were all the prophets?yes they were muslims and preached Islam.
Islam is an Arabic term that means:“To submit oneself to Almighty God by worshipping him alone, to yield in obedience to Him, and to free oneself from idolatry and those who worship other than Almighty
God”
the book in the link below
shows How The spirit of truth (Gabriel) was sent by God upon the Adon of David Muhammad and That he muhammad is the Guider to all truth. wether its about the Historical Jesus or other things. its the Guide to All truth.https://noblequran.com/surah-ale-imran/
and if we analyze those books below.It shows that jesus peace be upon him told the jews The kingdom of God is Coming and prophet hood will be tacken from Them and given to a nation who are true monotheist and do what God loves (fruits).Truly all god promises in the revelation”Quran”that the spirit of truth gabriel revealed to the Adon of David will happen. heaven and hell are true as did The Goodnews of the kingdom Come as was promised.
https://islamhouse.com/en/books/718316/
https://islamhouse.com/178683
https://d1.islamhouse.com/data/en/ih_books/chain/en_Muhammad_In_The_Bible/en_Muhammad_In_The_Bible_Full.pdf
No, Jesus was definitely not Muslim in any traditional sense, any more than any other Jew or Christian was.
is there someone jesus peace be upon him foretold about that he will explain The parables he made.
Because we have books in arabic written many years ago that mentions a verse in the gospel of john 15:17 or 14:16 but i cannot find it.
my translation of what we have is:
son of man is leaving and periqlytos will come with secerts and he will explain everything he will testify of me just like im affirming him for i came to you with parables and he will come explaining the parables.
Sorry: I don’t understand the grammar of your first sentence where you ask the question. Apologies!
Good afternoon Dr Bart Ehrman
please which group of early christians paul persecuted the most?
what did paul dislike from early followers of jesus peace be upon him that made him to persecute them?
Thank you
We don’t know who they were. He appears to have been scandalized by their view that the messiah of the Jews — who was to deliver the Jewish people from their enemies and set up a sovereign state in the land of Israel — was instead crucified by their enemy. For religious Jews like Paul, this was just the *opposite* of what the messiah was to be/do.
I think paul knew about early jesus followers belief of the Good news the coming kingdom of God with its prophet the cornerstone that would destroy the evil on its path. and then paul instead of persecuting them physically he just made the Good news That jesus died for sins.then the majority silenced the minority. up untill the kingdom of God came and revealed the truth about the Good news.
I think Jesus told the jews he is not the messiah that would establish the kingdom of God in earth. because he(Jesus) is the son of david not the master of david which is explained in bible. when jesus told them about them being fruitless that god will give the kingdom (prophet hood) to another nation to bring forth the fruits. when the jews heard that they wanted to Kill Him.what did the jews understand? This gives clear indication that jesus true followers got lost in history between two groups jews that disblieved in Jesus good news the coming kingdom that will bring forth the fruits and between a romanized christianity that instead of worshiping elohim worshiped the one elohim sent. there were learned jews who accepted Islam such as abdullah ibn salam at lifetime of the prophet, and other learned jews at lifetime of the prophet companions such as kab,wahb,hamam. what i mean to say is that islam bieng the kingdom of god is not just a muslim idea. also salman alfarisi lived with couple early christian scholars the last christian scholar directed him to go to madinah and wait for a prophet to emerge there.
Also it does seem there is another part of the good news other than the kingdom oF God which is the cornerstone that the jews rejected. each stone of the household of abraham represented a prophet that was sent. The Last prophet that has the kingdom upon his shoulder was the Corner stone the jews rejected its Goodnews. and when jesus told them the parable of the vineyard they understood That prophethood will be taken from them. Thats why they wanted to kill him.
Jesus made it clear to them he is not the one who would destroy the evil monters and save the birds. rather Its the Cornerstone that they rejected the good news that and his companions would destroy everything on its way. its really amazing how that was accomplished historically making all lands Abraham visited from nile to euphrates worship the God of Abraham. And we are waiting for Jesus to descend upon us as the son of David to Rule in the Kingdom Of God.
replying to the following”No, Jesus was definitely not Muslim in any traditional sense, any more than any other Jew or Christian was.”
my reply
Muslim just means someone who believes and submit in obiedence to the true one God of Abraham and believes in the original words of God and revelation given to moses torah and The original Gospel Given to Jesus peace be upon him and in the new Revelation That Jesus peace be upon him Gave Goodnews About Which Is will guide to all truth that is the Quran the word of god revealed by the holy spirit gabriel to The rejected Saviour The cornerstone, son of man, lord of Sabath, David Adon. and to beleive in the true prophets and angels and the last day and the predecree.
The reality is that all prophets submitted to God in obeideince to God. And preached their nations so. and The Ahmed or desire of nations is The Son of Man Sent for All nations.