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        <title>The Bart Ehrman Blog - Forum: Early Christian Apocrypha</title>
        <link>https://ehrmanblog.org/forum/early-christian-apocrypha/</link>
        <description><![CDATA[The History &#038; Literature of Early Christianity]]></description>
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                    <title>Robert on Logion 7</title>
                    <link>https://ehrmanblog.org/forum/early-christian-apocrypha/logion-7/#p46682</link>
                    <category>Early Christian Apocrypha</category>
                    <guid isPermaLink="true">https://ehrmanblog.org/forum/early-christian-apocrypha/logion-7/#p46682</guid>
					                        <description><![CDATA[<blockquote class="spPostEmbedQuote">
<p><strong>John Harris said </strong><br />
“The lion” may represent the compulsive passions or attachments that inhabit a person. If the man eats the lion, he masters those passions and subjugates them to his humanity. If the lion eats the man, the person becomes ruled by those passions, even while outwardly remaining human.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Thank you, John. I think that is a very reasonable interpretation! For anyone who may be wondering, here is the text of Logion 7 of the Gospel of Thomas:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>
Jesus says: “Blessed is the lion, that a person will eat and the lion will become human. And anathema is the person whom a lion will eat and the lion will become human.” </p>
</blockquote>
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					                    <pubDate>Sun, 10 May 2026 09:56:37 -0400</pubDate>
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                    <title>BJH1960 on Logion 7</title>
                    <link>https://ehrmanblog.org/forum/early-christian-apocrypha/logion-7/#p46664</link>
                    <category>Early Christian Apocrypha</category>
                    <guid isPermaLink="true">https://ehrmanblog.org/forum/early-christian-apocrypha/logion-7/#p46664</guid>
					                        <description><![CDATA[<p>John, welcome to the Readers Forum.</p>
<p>Bart doesn't respond to posts here, but he does on the Recent Posts.  It doesn't have to be on topic.  Usually his responses are toward questions posed, so you might want to ask a question at the end like, "What do you think?"</p>
]]></description>
					                    <pubDate>Sun, 10 May 2026 00:27:17 -0400</pubDate>
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                    <title>John Harris on Logion 7</title>
                    <link>https://ehrmanblog.org/forum/early-christian-apocrypha/logion-7/#p46663</link>
                    <category>Early Christian Apocrypha</category>
                    <guid isPermaLink="true">https://ehrmanblog.org/forum/early-christian-apocrypha/logion-7/#p46663</guid>
					                        <description><![CDATA[<p class="first-line-indent">Bart , I admire your work very much. I recently listened to your interview with Mark Goodacre.</p>
<p class="first-line-indent">You mentioned again that you do not feel you understand Logion 7 in the Gospel of Thomas. I realize the saying is notoriously difficult, but I wonder whether the image may be simpler than it first appears.</p>
<p class="first-line-indent">“The lion” may represent the compulsive passions or attachments that inhabit a person. If the man eats the lion, he masters those passions and subjugates them to his humanity. If the lion eats the man, the person becomes ruled by those passions, even while outwardly remaining human.</p>
<p class="first-line-indent">My own thought: When a child tries to distinguish between self &#038; non-self, he chooses dichotomies that he hopes will help him to understand. It never helps, but he carries the dichotomies into adulthood, which become his passion. When he seeks gnosis, the attachment to these becomes an obstacle.</p>
<p class="first-line-indent">At any rate, I wanted to share the thought. Thank you again for all the work you do.</p>
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					                    <pubDate>Sun, 10 May 2026 00:10:26 -0400</pubDate>
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                    <title>Colin Milton on Apochrypha in Ancient Greek: John Wanted a Death Inducer in Front of Emperor Domitian - Acts of John Written Not by the Apostle John But by Leucius Charinus</title>
                    <link>https://ehrmanblog.org/forum/early-christian-apocrypha/apochrypha-in-ancient-greek-john-wanted-a-death-inducer-in-front-of-emperor-domitian-acts-of-john-written-not-by-the-apostle-john-but-by-leucius-charinus/#p39466</link>
                    <category>Early Christian Apocrypha</category>
                    <guid isPermaLink="true">https://ehrmanblog.org/forum/early-christian-apocrypha/apochrypha-in-ancient-greek-john-wanted-a-death-inducer-in-front-of-emperor-domitian-acts-of-john-written-not-by-the-apostle-john-but-by-leucius-charinus/#p39466</guid>
					                        <description><![CDATA[<p><b>** you do not have permission to see this link **</b></p>
<p>το σιλλικυπριον </p>
<p>Cool research bro, nobody had any idea.</p>
]]></description>
					                    <pubDate>Thu, 20 Mar 2025 16:27:19 -0400</pubDate>
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                    <title>Colin Milton on Apochrypha in Ancient Greek: John Wanted a Death Inducer in Front of Emperor Domitian - Acts of John Written Not by the Apostle John But by Leucius Charinus</title>
                    <link>https://ehrmanblog.org/forum/early-christian-apocrypha/apochrypha-in-ancient-greek-john-wanted-a-death-inducer-in-front-of-emperor-domitian-acts-of-john-written-not-by-the-apostle-john-but-by-leucius-charinus/#p39378</link>
                    <category>Early Christian Apocrypha</category>
                    <guid isPermaLink="true">https://ehrmanblog.org/forum/early-christian-apocrypha/apochrypha-in-ancient-greek-john-wanted-a-death-inducer-in-front-of-emperor-domitian-acts-of-john-written-not-by-the-apostle-john-but-by-leucius-charinus/#p39378</guid>
					                        <description><![CDATA[<p>Ammon was a street preacher before adulthood. In the past he preached at homeless shelters before his Ancient Greek obsessions. Now he’s made Jesus into the evil Jesus villain through his Ancient Greek obsession and preaches to NOT be like the evil Jesus villain. 🤷‍♂️ </p>
<p>Ok then, that’s a new kind of street preacher.</p>
]]></description>
					                    <pubDate>Mon, 17 Mar 2025 04:53:36 -0400</pubDate>
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                    <title>Colin Milton on Apochrypha in Ancient Greek: John Wanted a Death Inducer in Front of Emperor Domitian - Acts of John Written Not by the Apostle John But by Leucius Charinus</title>
                    <link>https://ehrmanblog.org/forum/early-christian-apocrypha/apochrypha-in-ancient-greek-john-wanted-a-death-inducer-in-front-of-emperor-domitian-acts-of-john-written-not-by-the-apostle-john-but-by-leucius-charinus/#p39354</link>
                    <category>Early Christian Apocrypha</category>
                    <guid isPermaLink="true">https://ehrmanblog.org/forum/early-christian-apocrypha/apochrypha-in-ancient-greek-john-wanted-a-death-inducer-in-front-of-emperor-domitian-acts-of-john-written-not-by-the-apostle-john-but-by-leucius-charinus/#p39354</guid>
					                        <description><![CDATA[<p>The drugs are the words of the flesh. </p>
<p>οι χριστοι εισιν οι λογοι του σαρκος</p>
]]></description>
					                    <pubDate>Sun, 16 Mar 2025 02:33:04 -0400</pubDate>
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                    <title>Colin Milton on Apochrypha in Ancient Greek: John Wanted a Death Inducer in Front of Emperor Domitian - Acts of John Written Not by the Apostle John But by Leucius Charinus</title>
                    <link>https://ehrmanblog.org/forum/early-christian-apocrypha/apochrypha-in-ancient-greek-john-wanted-a-death-inducer-in-front-of-emperor-domitian-acts-of-john-written-not-by-the-apostle-john-but-by-leucius-charinus/#p39348</link>
                    <category>Early Christian Apocrypha</category>
                    <guid isPermaLink="true">https://ehrmanblog.org/forum/early-christian-apocrypha/apochrypha-in-ancient-greek-john-wanted-a-death-inducer-in-front-of-emperor-domitian-acts-of-john-written-not-by-the-apostle-john-but-by-leucius-charinus/#p39348</guid>
					                        <description><![CDATA[<p>χρεμπτομαι τα ολα οντα</p>
]]></description>
					                    <pubDate>Sat, 15 Mar 2025 18:16:24 -0400</pubDate>
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                    <title>Steefen on Apochrypha in Ancient Greek: John Wanted a Death Inducer in Front of Emperor Domitian - Acts of John Written Not by the Apostle John But by Leucius Charinus</title>
                    <link>https://ehrmanblog.org/forum/early-christian-apocrypha/apochrypha-in-ancient-greek-john-wanted-a-death-inducer-in-front-of-emperor-domitian-acts-of-john-written-not-by-the-apostle-john-but-by-leucius-charinus/#p39343</link>
                    <category>Early Christian Apocrypha</category>
                    <guid isPermaLink="true">https://ehrmanblog.org/forum/early-christian-apocrypha/apochrypha-in-ancient-greek-john-wanted-a-death-inducer-in-front-of-emperor-domitian-acts-of-john-written-not-by-the-apostle-john-but-by-leucius-charinus/#p39343</guid>
					                        <description><![CDATA[<p>Ammon: </p>
<p>We are using prophylactics against the death-inducing drugs.</p>
<p>So many antidotes to mind altering drugs...</p>
<p>Wolven Joker Lokison:<br />
Run, Christians, Run... Your Christ Can't Save You NOw!</p>
<p>The Ancient Greek has spoken. There is more to know that you all did not tell us ! ! !<br />
You tried to canonize all of this EVIDENCE out.</p>
<p>Ammon:</p>
<p>Diodorus Siculus</p>
<p>This is a Christing operation against the death inducers.</p>
<p>We're Christing arrows with poison on their tips.</p>
<p>Another Source: Aristoteles et Corpus Aristotelicum Phil. Mirabilium auscultationes Bekker p. 835B line 34</p>
<p>Theophrastus Phil. Historia plantarum Bk 4 Ch 4 section 2 line 12</p>
<p>Ammon:</p>
<p>We created a fairy tale about what Christ (a house of cards that cannot stand) was but now we know the explicit meaning of christing.</p>
<p>We're going to end with this.</p>
<p>Mania is the ecstasy of your mind/reasoning. Insanity is what happens when you stretch out mania.</p>
<p>People are LYING to you. This is your chance to be free.</p>
<p>They think they know their texts about Jesus.</p>
<p>End of video.</p>
<p>This video gets a thumb up.</p>
]]></description>
					                    <pubDate>Sat, 15 Mar 2025 14:28:09 -0400</pubDate>
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                    <title>Steefen on Apochrypha in Ancient Greek: John Wanted a Death Inducer in Front of Emperor Domitian - Acts of John Written Not by the Apostle John But by Leucius Charinus</title>
                    <link>https://ehrmanblog.org/forum/early-christian-apocrypha/apochrypha-in-ancient-greek-john-wanted-a-death-inducer-in-front-of-emperor-domitian-acts-of-john-written-not-by-the-apostle-john-but-by-leucius-charinus/#p39342</link>
                    <category>Early Christian Apocrypha</category>
                    <guid isPermaLink="true">https://ehrmanblog.org/forum/early-christian-apocrypha/apochrypha-in-ancient-greek-john-wanted-a-death-inducer-in-front-of-emperor-domitian-acts-of-john-written-not-by-the-apostle-john-but-by-leucius-charinus/#p39342</guid>
					                        <description><![CDATA[<p>Picking up where the video left off..</p>
<p>Ammon, if you wanted to die, just take Hemlock.</p>
<p>BUT WE ARE NOT TALKING about that, we're talking about mystery religions. You're supposed to triumph over death.</p>
<p>We don't have mystery religions anymore. We have carnivals.</p>
<p>= = =</p>
<p>Finally, at 1:06.19, I see his quote #24 Galenus Med. De Simplicium medicamentorum ...<br />
Volume 12, page 174, line 11</p>
<p>Theriacs and death inducers</p>
<p>administered via [he doesn't say in English] making the seals</p>
<p>the same methodology and the same language as in John's Apocalypse</p>
<p>You do not have prophets without drugs</p>
<p>1:08.38 same book, Vol II, p. 609, line 8</p>
<p>treat the deleterious death inducers which can kill you like Hemlock.</p>
<p>Give pain killer with the antidote for the poison/death inducer</p>
<p>I didn't want to be accidentally exposed to the thirst inducer.</p>
<p>Look, everything can fall on the efficacy of the drug. So, efficacy comes from experience using the drugs.</p>
<p>(Theriac is the correct spelling. I may have put the letter "k" in the spelling earlier.)</p>
]]></description>
					                    <pubDate>Sat, 15 Mar 2025 14:02:58 -0400</pubDate>
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                    <title>Steefen on Apochrypha in Ancient Greek: John Wanted a Death Inducer in Front of Emperor Domitian - Acts of John Written Not by the Apostle John But by Leucius Charinus</title>
                    <link>https://ehrmanblog.org/forum/early-christian-apocrypha/apochrypha-in-ancient-greek-john-wanted-a-death-inducer-in-front-of-emperor-domitian-acts-of-john-written-not-by-the-apostle-john-but-by-leucius-charinus/#p39341</link>
                    <category>Early Christian Apocrypha</category>
                    <guid isPermaLink="true">https://ehrmanblog.org/forum/early-christian-apocrypha/apochrypha-in-ancient-greek-john-wanted-a-death-inducer-in-front-of-emperor-domitian-acts-of-john-written-not-by-the-apostle-john-but-by-leucius-charinus/#p39341</guid>
					                        <description><![CDATA[<p>Steefen, Argumentation Expert</p>
<p>So, Ammon has given us something e;se to think about:</p>
<p>Jesus knew Judas was betraying him with the worst case scenario being crucifixion.</p>
<p>Jesus thought that was a high probability, he begged God not to go through with it, but if it must be, Thy will be done.</p>
<p>BUT, I'm not suffering on the cross as long as it usually takes, I'm taking a death inducer (poison) and I'm daying early, I'm not going to suffer on the cross for as long as it takes.</p>
<p>They tried to give him an antidote for the poison but, vinegar doesn't quench thirst.</p>
]]></description>
					                    <pubDate>Sat, 15 Mar 2025 13:31:28 -0400</pubDate>
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                    <title>Steefen on What's going on with Scholars? Newly Retired from Teaching at Princeton, Elaine Pagels: "Were the Gnostics Right about Jesus?</title>
                    <link>https://ehrmanblog.org/forum/early-christian-apocrypha/whats-going-on-with-scholars-newly-retired-from-teaching-at-princeton-elaine-pagels-were-the-gnostics-right-about-jesus/#p39340</link>
                    <category>Early Christian Apocrypha</category>
                    <guid isPermaLink="true">https://ehrmanblog.org/forum/early-christian-apocrypha/whats-going-on-with-scholars-newly-retired-from-teaching-at-princeton-elaine-pagels-were-the-gnostics-right-about-jesus/#p39340</guid>
					                        <description><![CDATA[<p>...<br />
= = = = = = = = Cut down to 200 words or less:</p>
<p>Dr. Bart Ehrman: I don’t think John knew Thomas and the Synoptics.</p>
<p>Steefen<br />
The Gospel of John was likely written in Ephesus, in Asia Minor (modern-day Turkey), during the late 1st century, around 90-100 CE, for Christians of Hellenistic background.</p>
<p>1) But he would have known about the Church of Ephesus and how Paul (who died 64/65) preached the coming kingdom of God and Eph 5:5.</p>
<p>2) With Mark being written approximately 70CE, the author of John did not know the first of the Synoptics or the Oral History of Jesus teaching people to prepare for the kingdom.</p>
<p>Pagels: a follower of Jesus is not like Jesus, a child of God Gos of Thomas, saying 50</p>
<p>Steefen: Gos of Thomas isn’t the only place this is seen: Matthew 5:9, 1 John 3:2</p>
<p>So, we don’t know why there are the three put downs of Thomas in the Gos of John</p>
<p>Conclusion: Pagel’s argument is not strong or in error.</p>
<p>Bart:<br />
I don’t see how Thomas can date before the 120s or so.<br />
Thin that Thomas knew John.</p>
<p>Steefen<br />
Author of Thomas has at least 10 years and doesn’t know of the Johanine community or its gospel?</p>
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					                    <pubDate>Sat, 15 Mar 2025 13:24:08 -0400</pubDate>
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                    <title>Colin Milton on Apochrypha in Ancient Greek: John Wanted a Death Inducer in Front of Emperor Domitian - Acts of John Written Not by the Apostle John But by Leucius Charinus</title>
                    <link>https://ehrmanblog.org/forum/early-christian-apocrypha/apochrypha-in-ancient-greek-john-wanted-a-death-inducer-in-front-of-emperor-domitian-acts-of-john-written-not-by-the-apostle-john-but-by-leucius-charinus/#p39324</link>
                    <category>Early Christian Apocrypha</category>
                    <guid isPermaLink="true">https://ehrmanblog.org/forum/early-christian-apocrypha/apochrypha-in-ancient-greek-john-wanted-a-death-inducer-in-front-of-emperor-domitian-acts-of-john-written-not-by-the-apostle-john-but-by-leucius-charinus/#p39324</guid>
					                        <description><![CDATA[<p>@ ω πορφυρος </p>
<p><b>** you do not have permission to see this link **</b></p>
<p>That’s all I found. “Revel” is in the poems, epigrams four times. Revel and Revelation are not synonymous. Other than this, there’s a lot of history and analysis written about Philodemus that is more than he wrote himself.</p>
<p>At 5:55 he, Beast of Ammon uses the passive voice meaning (to be satisfied)  of αρκει μοι 🤷‍♂️, but that’s not a passive voice verb.<br />
αρκεω<br />
αρκει: Impersonal verb, Indicative Mood, Active Voice, Present tense, 3rd person Singular<br />
Root is the same as αρηγω<br />
It is enough for me: I am well content </p>
<p>Same thing I guess 🤷‍♂️ so the active voice verb used with dative case first person pronoun is the same thing as the passive voice verb verb</p>
]]></description>
					                    <pubDate>Sat, 15 Mar 2025 07:04:34 -0400</pubDate>
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                    <title>Colin Milton on Apochrypha in Ancient Greek: John Wanted a Death Inducer in Front of Emperor Domitian - Acts of John Written Not by the Apostle John But by Leucius Charinus</title>
                    <link>https://ehrmanblog.org/forum/early-christian-apocrypha/apochrypha-in-ancient-greek-john-wanted-a-death-inducer-in-front-of-emperor-domitian-acts-of-john-written-not-by-the-apostle-john-but-by-leucius-charinus/#p39322</link>
                    <category>Early Christian Apocrypha</category>
                    <guid isPermaLink="true">https://ehrmanblog.org/forum/early-christian-apocrypha/apochrypha-in-ancient-greek-john-wanted-a-death-inducer-in-front-of-emperor-domitian-acts-of-john-written-not-by-the-apostle-john-but-by-leucius-charinus/#p39322</guid>
					                        <description><![CDATA[<p>Somebody burn some στυραχ </p>
<p>It clears up bad sinus congestion when breathed. And you can chew it like gum for bad breath.</p>
]]></description>
					                    <pubDate>Sat, 15 Mar 2025 06:05:42 -0400</pubDate>
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                    <title>Porphyry on Apochrypha in Ancient Greek: John Wanted a Death Inducer in Front of Emperor Domitian - Acts of John Written Not by the Apostle John But by Leucius Charinus</title>
                    <link>https://ehrmanblog.org/forum/early-christian-apocrypha/apochrypha-in-ancient-greek-john-wanted-a-death-inducer-in-front-of-emperor-domitian-acts-of-john-written-not-by-the-apostle-john-but-by-leucius-charinus/#p39315</link>
                    <category>Early Christian Apocrypha</category>
                    <guid isPermaLink="true">https://ehrmanblog.org/forum/early-christian-apocrypha/apochrypha-in-ancient-greek-john-wanted-a-death-inducer-in-front-of-emperor-domitian-acts-of-john-written-not-by-the-apostle-john-but-by-leucius-charinus/#p39315</guid>
					                        <description><![CDATA[<p><i>It’s seems to be a unique Bible word. There’s not any other references to other books using the word</i></p>
<p>What about the reference to Philodemus, On Vices?</p>
]]></description>
					                    <pubDate>Sat, 15 Mar 2025 04:10:18 -0400</pubDate>
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                    <title>Colin Milton on Apochrypha in Ancient Greek: John Wanted a Death Inducer in Front of Emperor Domitian - Acts of John Written Not by the Apostle John But by Leucius Charinus</title>
                    <link>https://ehrmanblog.org/forum/early-christian-apocrypha/apochrypha-in-ancient-greek-john-wanted-a-death-inducer-in-front-of-emperor-domitian-acts-of-john-written-not-by-the-apostle-john-but-by-leucius-charinus/#p39313</link>
                    <category>Early Christian Apocrypha</category>
                    <guid isPermaLink="true">https://ehrmanblog.org/forum/early-christian-apocrypha/apochrypha-in-ancient-greek-john-wanted-a-death-inducer-in-front-of-emperor-domitian-acts-of-john-written-not-by-the-apostle-john-but-by-leucius-charinus/#p39313</guid>
					                        <description><![CDATA[<p>αποκαλυψις looks like a abstract word created by adding abstract suffix σις to the verb αποκαλεω αποκαλυπτω future tense αποκαλυπσω: πς =ψ αποκαλυψω +σις = αποκαλυψσις αποκαλυψις </p>
<p>Probably something to do with the Diaspora.</p>
]]></description>
					                    <pubDate>Fri, 14 Mar 2025 19:26:14 -0400</pubDate>
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