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                    <title>Steefen on Historical Accuracy, 2nd Edition by Steve Campbell and The Hebrew Bible and Younger Dryas, Sumer Floods vs Noah</title>
                    <link>https://ehrmanblog.org/forum/the-hebrew-bible/historical-accuracy-2nd-edition-by-steve-campbell-and-the-hebrew-bible-and-younger-dryas-sumer-floods-vs-noah/page-3/#p49406</link>
                    <category>The Hebrew Bible</category>
                    <guid isPermaLink="true">https://ehrmanblog.org/forum/the-hebrew-bible/historical-accuracy-2nd-edition-by-steve-campbell-and-the-hebrew-bible-and-younger-dryas-sumer-floods-vs-noah/page-3/#p49406</guid>
					                        <description><![CDATA[<h6><span style="color: #0000ff">Steefen:</span><br />
<span style="color: #0000ff">I can't just say Younger Dryas. I have to say Early Holocene.</span></h6>
<div> </div>
<div>= = = = = =</div>
<div> </div>
<div>
<div class="n6owBd awi2gc" style="font-family: Google Sans, Arial, sans-serif;font-size: 16px;font-weight: 400;margin: 12px 0px 16px;text-decoration: none;border-bottom: 0px #0a0a0a">Here is how those events actually unfolded:<!--TgQPHd&#124;&#124;&#124;[]--></div>
<div class="yhAwj" style="font-family: Google Sans, Arial, sans-serif;font-size: 14px;font-weight: 400;margin: 0px;text-decoration: none;border-bottom: 0px #0a0a0a"><!--TgQPHd&#124;&#124;&#124;[]--></div>
<div class="otQkpb" style="font-family: Google Sans, Arial, sans-serif;font-size: 20px;font-weight: 600;margin: 24px 0px 12px;text-decoration: none;border-bottom: 0px #0a0a0a">🌍 The Younger Dryas and Mesopotamia<!--TgQPHd&#124;&#124;&#124;[]--></div>
<ul class="KsbFXc U6u95" style="font-family: Google Sans, Arial, sans-serif;font-size: 16px;font-weight: 400;margin: 12px 0px 16px;text-decoration: none;border-bottom: 0px #0a0a0a">
<li style="list-style-type: none">
<ul class="KsbFXc U6u95" style="font-family: Google Sans, Arial, sans-serif;font-size: 16px;font-weight: 400;margin: 12px 0px 16px;text-decoration: none;border-bottom: 0px #0a0a0a">
<li class="Z1qcYe" style="font-family: Google Sans, Arial, sans-serif;font-size: 16px;font-weight: 400;margin: 0px 0px 12px;text-decoration: none;border-bottom: 0px #0a0a0a"><span class="iNqyIf" style="font-family: Google Sans, Arial, sans-serif;font-size: 16px;font-weight: 400;margin: 0px;text-decoration: none;border-bottom: 0px #0a0a0a"><strong class="rQesXe MPyX">The Environment:<!--TgQPHd&#124;&#124;&#124;[]--></strong> During the Younger Dryas (roughly 12,900 to 11,700 years ago), Mesopotamia wasn't just cold; it became <strong class="rQesXe MPyX">severely dry and arid<!--TgQPHd&#124;&#124;&#124;[]--></strong>.<!--TgQPHd&#124;&#124;&#124;[]--></span><!--TgQPHd&#124;&#124;&#124;[]--></li>
<li class="Z1qcYe" style="font-family: Google Sans, Arial, sans-serif;font-size: 16px;font-weight: 400;margin: 0px 0px 12px;text-decoration: none;border-bottom: 0px #0a0a0a"><span class="iNqyIf" style="font-family: Google Sans, Arial, sans-serif;font-size: 16px;font-weight: 400;margin: 0px;text-decoration: none;border-bottom: 0px #0a0a0a"><strong class="rQesXe MPyX">The Impact:<!--TgQPHd&#124;&#124;&#124;[]--></strong> The drought shrank natural food supplies, which scientists believe pushed early human hunter-gatherers in the region to begin cultivating wild grains—sparking the very earliest roots of <strong class="rQesXe MPyX">agriculture<!--TgQPHd&#124;&#124;&#124;[]--></strong>.<!--TgQPHd&#124;&#124;&#124;[]--></span><!--TgQPHd&#124;&#124;&#124;[]--></li>
</ul>
</li>
</ul>
<p><!--TgQPHd&#124;&#124;&#124;[]--></p>
<div class="yhAwj" style="font-family: Google Sans, Arial, sans-serif;font-size: 14px;font-weight: 400;margin: 0px;text-decoration: none;border-bottom: 0px #0a0a0a"><!--TgQPHd&#124;&#124;&#124;[]--></div>
<div class="otQkpb" style="font-family: Google Sans, Arial, sans-serif;font-size: 20px;font-weight: 600;margin: 24px 0px 12px;text-decoration: none;border-bottom: 0px #0a0a0a">☀️ The Holocene Transition<!--TgQPHd&#124;&#124;&#124;[]--></div>
<ul class="KsbFXc U6u95" style="font-family: Google Sans, Arial, sans-serif;font-size: 16px;font-weight: 400;margin: 12px 0px 16px;text-decoration: none;border-bottom: 0px #0a0a0a">
<li class="Z1qcYe" style="font-family: Google Sans, Arial, sans-serif;font-size: 16px;font-weight: 400;margin: 0px 0px 12px;text-decoration: none;border-bottom: 0px #0a0a0a"><span class="iNqyIf" style="font-family: Google Sans, Arial, sans-serif;font-size: 16px;font-weight: 400;margin: 0px;text-decoration: none;border-bottom: 0px #0a0a0a"><strong class="rQesXe MPyX">The Warming:<!--TgQPHd&#124;&#124;&#124;[]--></strong> Around 11,700 years ago, the Younger Dryas ended abruptly. Global temperatures surged, officially marking the start of the <strong class="rQesXe MPyX">Holocene<!--TgQPHd&#124;&#124;&#124;[]--></strong> epoch.<!--TgQPHd&#124;&#124;&#124;[]--></span><!--TgQPHd&#124;&#124;&#124;[]--></li>
<li class="Z1qcYe" style="font-family: Google Sans, Arial, sans-serif;font-size: 16px;font-weight: 400;margin: 0px 0px 12px;text-decoration: none;border-bottom: 0px #0a0a0a"><span class="iNqyIf" style="font-family: Google Sans, Arial, sans-serif;font-size: 16px;font-weight: 400;margin: 0px;text-decoration: none;border-bottom: 0px #0a0a0a"><strong class="rQesXe MPyX">The Ice Melt:<!--TgQPHd&#124;&#124;&#124;[]--></strong> This warming melted the massive remaining ice sheets, but those glaciers were mostly in <strong class="rQesXe MPyX">North America and Northern Europe<!--TgQPHd&#124;&#124;&#124;[]--></strong>, not Mesopotamia.<!--TgQPHd&#124;&#124;&#124;[]--></span><!--TgQPHd&#124;&#124;&#124;[]--></li>
<li class="Z1qcYe" style="font-family: Google Sans, Arial, sans-serif;font-size: 16px;font-weight: 400;margin: 0px 0px 12px;text-decoration: none;border-bottom: 0px #0a0a0a"><span class="iNqyIf" style="font-family: Google Sans, Arial, sans-serif;font-size: 16px;font-weight: 400;margin: 0px;text-decoration: none;border-bottom: 0px #0a0a0a"><strong class="rQesXe MPyX">The Floods:<!--TgQPHd&#124;&#124;&#124;[]--></strong> The melting ice caused global sea levels to rise dramatically. In Mesopotamia, this didn't cause an immediate, catastrophic wall of water, but it did drastically alter the landscape over thousands of years. It filled up the Persian Gulf and created the lush, marshy river deltas of the Tigris and Euphrates, which later fed the world's first great civilizations like Sumer.</span></li>
</ul>
<p>= = = = = =</p>
</div>
<div class="n6owBd awi2gc" style="font-family: Google Sans, Arial, sans-serif;font-size: 16px;font-weight: 400;margin: 12px 0px 16px;text-decoration: none;border-bottom: 0px #0a0a0a"><strong class="rQesXe MPyX"><span class="iNqyIf" style="font-family: Google Sans, Arial, sans-serif;font-size: 16px;font-weight: 500;margin: 0px;text-decoration: none;border-bottom: 0px #0a0a0a">Massive and violent rainstorms absolutely accompanied the rising seas and <span style="font-family: Google Sans, Arial, sans-serif;font-size: 16px;font-weight: 500;margin: 0px;text-decoration: none;border-bottom: 0px #0a0a0a"><span class="" style="font-family: Google Sans, Arial, sans-serif;font-size: 16px;font-weight: 500;margin: 0px;text-decoration: none;border-bottom: 0px #0a0a0a">shifting deltas<!--TgQPHd&#124;&#124;&#124;[]--><!--TgQPHd&#124;&#124;&#124;[false,"",false,{"u":0}]--></span><!--TgQPHd&#124;&#124;&#124;[]--><!--TgQPHd&#124;&#124;&#124;[]--></span><!--TgQPHd&#124;&#124;&#124;[]--></span><!--TgQPHd&#124;&#124;&#124;[]--></strong><!--TgQPHd&#124;&#124;&#124;[[]]--><strong class="rQesXe MPyX">.<!--TgQPHd&#124;&#124;&#124;[]--></strong> In fact, the weather in early Holocene Mesopotamia was drastically different—and much wetter—than the arid desert landscape we see today. [<a href="https://ui.adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2022EaArX....S2AQTE/abstract" target="_blank">1</a>, <a href="https://www.penn.museum/sites/expedition/reflections-on-the-mesopotamian-flood/" target="_blank">2</a>, <a href="https://www.researchgate.net/publication/340088206_Floods_and_Flood_Protection_in_Mesopotamia" target="_blank">3</a>, <a href="https://www.sciencing.com/temperature-climate-ancient-mesopotamia-9330/" target="_blank">4</a>]<!--TgQPHd&#124;&#124;&#124;[]--></div>
<div class="n6owBd awi2gc" style="font-family: Google Sans, Arial, sans-serif;font-size: 16px;font-weight: 400;margin: 12px 0px 16px;text-decoration: none;border-bottom: 0px #0a0a0a">During the <strong class="rQesXe MPyX">Holocene Climate Optimum<!--TgQPHd&#124;&#124;&#124;[]--></strong> (roughly 9,000 to 6,000 years ago), a perfect storm of climate factors created an era of intense, chaotic rainfall over the region: [<a href="https://www.researchgate.net/publication/389901759_Mid-Holocene_hydroclimatic_optimum_recorded_in_a_stalagmite_from_Shalaii_Cave_northern_Iraq" target="_blank">1</a>]<!--TgQPHd&#124;&#124;&#124;[]--></div>
<div class="yhAwj" style="font-family: Google Sans, Arial, sans-serif;font-size: 14px;font-weight: 400;margin: 0px;text-decoration: none;border-bottom: 0px #0a0a0a"><!--TgQPHd&#124;&#124;&#124;[]--></div>
<div class="otQkpb" style="font-family: Google Sans, Arial, sans-serif;font-size: 20px;font-weight: 600;margin: 24px 0px 12px;text-decoration: none;border-bottom: 0px #0a0a0a">⛈️ The "Whammy" of Indian Ocean Monsoons<!--TgQPHd&#124;&#124;&#124;[]--></div>
<div class="n6owBd awi2gc" style="font-family: Google Sans, Arial, sans-serif;font-size: 16px;font-weight: 400;margin: 12px 0px 16px;text-decoration: none;border-bottom: 0px #0a0a0a">As global temperatures warmed up, the <strong class="rQesXe MPyX"><span class="iNqyIf" style="font-family: Google Sans, Arial, sans-serif;font-size: 16px;font-weight: bold;margin: 0px;text-decoration: none;border-bottom: 0px #0a0a0a"><span style="font-family: Google Sans, Arial, sans-serif;font-size: 16px;font-weight: bold;margin: 0px;text-decoration: none;border-bottom: 0px #0a0a0a"><span class="" style="font-family: Google Sans, Arial, sans-serif;font-size: 16px;font-weight: bold;margin: 0px;text-decoration: none;border-bottom: 0px #0a0a0a">Indian Summer Monsoon<!--TgQPHd&#124;&#124;&#124;[]--><!--TgQPHd&#124;&#124;&#124;[false,"",false,{"u":0}]--></span><!--TgQPHd&#124;&#124;&#124;[]--><!--TgQPHd&#124;&#124;&#124;[]--></span><!--TgQPHd&#124;&#124;&#124;[]--></span><!--TgQPHd&#124;&#124;&#124;[]--></strong> grew incredibly powerful and shifted much further north and west than it does today. [<a href="https://www.researchgate.net/publication/389901759_Mid-Holocene_hydroclimatic_optimum_recorded_in_a_stalagmite_from_Shalaii_Cave_northern_Iraq" target="_blank">1</a>]<!--TgQPHd&#124;&#124;&#124;[]--></div>
<ul class="KsbFXc U6u95" style="font-family: Google Sans, Arial, sans-serif;font-size: 16px;font-weight: 400;margin: 12px 0px 16px;text-decoration: none;border-bottom: 0px #0a0a0a">
<li style="list-style-type: none">
<ul class="KsbFXc U6u95" style="font-family: Google Sans, Arial, sans-serif;font-size: 16px;font-weight: 400;margin: 12px 0px 16px;text-decoration: none;border-bottom: 0px #0a0a0a">
<li class="Z1qcYe" style="font-family: Google Sans, Arial, sans-serif;font-size: 16px;font-weight: 400;margin: 0px 0px 12px;text-decoration: none;border-bottom: 0px #0a0a0a"><span class="iNqyIf" style="font-family: Google Sans, Arial, sans-serif;font-size: 16px;font-weight: 400;margin: 0px;text-decoration: none;border-bottom: 0px #0a0a0a"><strong class="rQesXe MPyX">Tropical Plumes:<!--TgQPHd&#124;&#124;&#124;[]--></strong> This expansion pulled volatile, moisture-heavy tropical weather patterns straight from the Indian Ocean across the Arabian Peninsula and directly into Mesopotamia.<!--TgQPHd&#124;&#124;&#124;[]--></span> [<a href="https://brill.com/display/book/9789004444973/BP000016.xml?srsltid=AfmBOoo38g_ZJwPDQ7Qha7qPfSObXw3-ELmfJwGiRX7wy0S_RTbXf1Yh" target="_blank">1</a>, <a href="https://www.researchgate.net/publication/389901759_Mid-Holocene_hydroclimatic_optimum_recorded_in_a_stalagmite_from_Shalaii_Cave_northern_Iraq" target="_blank">2</a>]<span style="font-family: Google Sans, Arial, sans-serif;font-size: 16px;font-weight: 400;margin: 0px;text-decoration: none;border-bottom: 0px #0a0a0a"><!--TgQPHd&#124;&#124;&#124;[]--></span><!--TgQPHd&#124;&#124;&#124;[]--></li>
<li class="Z1qcYe" style="font-family: Google Sans, Arial, sans-serif;font-size: 16px;font-weight: 400;margin: 0px 0px 12px;text-decoration: none;border-bottom: 0px #0a0a0a"><span class="iNqyIf" style="font-family: Google Sans, Arial, sans-serif;font-size: 16px;font-weight: 400;margin: 0px;text-decoration: none;border-bottom: 0px #0a0a0a"><strong class="rQesXe MPyX">Torrential Summer Downpours:<!--TgQPHd&#124;&#124;&#124;[]--></strong> Instead of just getting mild winter rains, Mesopotamia was slammed with severe, uncharacteristic summer rainstorms.<!--TgQPHd&#124;&#124;&#124;[]--></span> [<a href="https://www.preventionweb.net/news/using-monsoons-past-predict-climate-conditions-future" target="_blank">1</a>, <a href="https://www.britannica.com/place/Tigris-Euphrates-river-system/Climate" target="_blank">2</a>, <a href="https://www.researchgate.net/publication/389901759_Mid-Holocene_hydroclimatic_optimum_recorded_in_a_stalagmite_from_Shalaii_Cave_northern_Iraq" target="_blank">3</a>]<span style="font-family: Google Sans, Arial, sans-serif;font-size: 16px;font-weight: 400;margin: 0px;text-decoration: none;border-bottom: 0px #0a0a0a"><!--TgQPHd&#124;&#124;&#124;[]--></span><!--TgQPHd&#124;&#124;&#124;[]--></li>
</ul>
</li>
</ul>
<p><!--TgQPHd&#124;&#124;&#124;[]--></p>
<div class="yhAwj" style="font-family: Google Sans, Arial, sans-serif;font-size: 14px;font-weight: 400;margin: 0px;text-decoration: none;border-bottom: 0px #0a0a0a"><!--TgQPHd&#124;&#124;&#124;[]--></div>
<div class="otQkpb" style="font-family: Google Sans, Arial, sans-serif;font-size: 20px;font-weight: 600;margin: 24px 0px 12px;text-decoration: none;border-bottom: 0px #0a0a0a">🏔️ Raging Rivers and Sudden Deluges<!--TgQPHd&#124;&#124;&#124;[]--></div>
<div class="n6owBd awi2gc" style="font-family: Google Sans, Arial, sans-serif;font-size: 16px;font-weight: 400;margin: 12px 0px 16px;text-decoration: none;border-bottom: 0px #0a0a0a">The rain didn't just fall on the flat plains; it hammered the northern <strong class="rQesXe MPyX">Taurus and Zagros mountains<!--TgQPHd&#124;&#124;&#124;[]--></strong> (where the Tigris and Euphrates originate). [<a href="https://www.researchgate.net/publication/340088206_Floods_and_Flood_Protection_in_Mesopotamia" target="_blank">1</a>]<!--TgQPHd&#124;&#124;&#124;[]--></div>
<ul class="KsbFXc U6u95" style="font-family: Google Sans, Arial, sans-serif;font-size: 16px;font-weight: 400;margin: 12px 0px 16px;text-decoration: none;border-bottom: 0px #0a0a0a">
<li style="list-style-type: none">
<ul class="KsbFXc U6u95" style="font-family: Google Sans, Arial, sans-serif;font-size: 16px;font-weight: 400;margin: 12px 0px 16px;text-decoration: none;border-bottom: 0px #0a0a0a">
<li class="Z1qcYe" style="font-family: Google Sans, Arial, sans-serif;font-size: 16px;font-weight: 400;margin: 0px 0px 12px;text-decoration: none;border-bottom: 0px #0a0a0a"><span class="iNqyIf" style="font-family: Google Sans, Arial, sans-serif;font-size: 16px;font-weight: 400;margin: 0px;text-decoration: none;border-bottom: 0px #0a0a0a"><strong class="rQesXe MPyX">The Double Inundation:<!--TgQPHd&#124;&#124;&#124;[]--></strong> In the spring, when the winter mountain snow naturally melted, it was suddenly hit by these heavy, warm rainstorms.<!--TgQPHd&#124;&#124;&#124;[]--></span> [<a href="https://www.britannica.com/place/Tigris-Euphrates-river-system/Climate" target="_blank">1</a>, <a href="https://www.researchgate.net/publication/340088206_Floods_and_Flood_Protection_in_Mesopotamia" target="_blank">2</a>]<span style="font-family: Google Sans, Arial, sans-serif;font-size: 16px;font-weight: 400;margin: 0px;text-decoration: none;border-bottom: 0px #0a0a0a"><!--TgQPHd&#124;&#124;&#124;[]--></span><!--TgQPHd&#124;&#124;&#124;[]--></li>
<li class="Z1qcYe" style="font-family: Google Sans, Arial, sans-serif;font-size: 16px;font-weight: 400;margin: 0px 0px 12px;text-decoration: none;border-bottom: 0px #0a0a0a"><span class="iNqyIf" style="font-family: Google Sans, Arial, sans-serif;font-size: 16px;font-weight: 400;margin: 0px;text-decoration: none;border-bottom: 0px #0a0a0a"><strong class="rQesXe MPyX">Flash Floods:<!--TgQPHd&#124;&#124;&#124;[]--></strong> This caused the rivers to swell with catastrophic volume. Because the Mesopotamian plain is incredibly flat, the water could not drain quickly. A single massive storm upstream could send a violent wall of water rushing south, completely washing away early villages.<!--TgQPHd&#124;&#124;&#124;[]--></span> [<a href="https://slate.com/technology/2015/11/floods-led-to-civilization-archaeology-lessons-on-climate.html" target="_blank">1</a>, <a href="https://www.britannica.com/place/Tigris-Euphrates-river-system/Climate" target="_blank">2</a>, <a href="https://www.researchgate.net/publication/340088206_Floods_and_Flood_Protection_in_Mesopotamia" target="_blank">3</a>]<span style="font-family: Google Sans, Arial, sans-serif;font-size: 16px;font-weight: 400;margin: 0px;text-decoration: none;border-bottom: 0px #0a0a0a"><!--TgQPHd&#124;&#124;&#124;[]--></span><!--TgQPHd&#124;&#124;&#124;[]--></li>
</ul>
</li>
</ul>
<p><!--TgQPHd&#124;&#124;&#124;[]--></p>
<div class="yhAwj" style="font-family: Google Sans, Arial, sans-serif;font-size: 14px;font-weight: 400;margin: 0px;text-decoration: none;border-bottom: 0px #0a0a0a"><!--TgQPHd&#124;&#124;&#124;[]--></div>
<div class="otQkpb" style="font-family: Google Sans, Arial, sans-serif;font-size: 20px;font-weight: 600;margin: 24px 0px 12px;text-decoration: none;border-bottom: 0px #0a0a0a">📜 Cultural Memory: "Seven Days and Seven Nights"<!--TgQPHd&#124;&#124;&#124;[]--></div>
<div class="n6owBd awi2gc" style="font-family: Google Sans, Arial, sans-serif;font-size: 16px;font-weight: 400;margin: 12px 0px 16px;text-decoration: none;border-bottom: 0px #0a0a0a">This era of violent storms is exactly what is captured in ancient literature. In the <strong class="rQesXe MPyX">Sumerian Flood Myth<!--TgQPHd&#124;&#124;&#124;[]--></strong> (<em class="zhvwWe">The Eridu Genesis<!--TgQPHd&#124;&#124;&#124;[]--></em>), the disaster isn't just described as rising water—it is explicitly blamed on a colossal storm: [<a href="https://www.facebook.com/tableofgods/posts/the-original-flood-myth-from-mesopotamia/1353867650147060/" target="_blank">1</a>, <a href="https://www.penn.museum/sites/expedition/reflections-on-the-mesopotamian-flood/" target="_blank">2</a>]<!--TgQPHd&#124;&#124;&#124;[]--></div>
<div class="yhAwj" style="font-family: Google Sans, Arial, sans-serif;font-size: 14px;font-weight: 400;margin: 0px;text-decoration: none;border-bottom: 0px #0a0a0a"><!--TgQPHd&#124;&#124;&#124;[]--></div>
<blockquote class="lQkWXb" style="font-family: Google Sans, Arial, sans-serif;font-size: 14px;font-weight: 400;margin: 4px 40px 0px;text-decoration: none;border-bottom: 0px #0a0a0a">
<div class="n6owBd awi2gc" style="font-family: Google Sans, Arial, sans-serif;font-size: 16px;font-weight: 400;margin: 0px;text-decoration: none;border-bottom: 0px #0a0a0a"><em class="zhvwWe">"All the windstorms, exceedingly powerful, attacked as one, at the same time, the flood swept over the cult-centers... For seven days and seven nights, the flood had swept over the land, and the huge boat had been tossed about by the windstorms on the great waters."<!--TgQPHd&#124;&#124;&#124;[]--></em> [<a href="https://www.penn.museum/sites/expedition/reflections-on-the-mesopotamian-flood/" target="_blank">1</a>]<!--TgQPHd&#124;&#124;&#124;[]--></div>
<p><!--TgQPHd&#124;&#124;&#124;[]--></p>
</blockquote>
<div class="n6owBd awi2gc" style="font-family: Google Sans, Arial, sans-serif;font-size: 16px;font-weight: 400;margin: 12px 0px 16px;text-decoration: none;border-bottom: 0px #0a0a0a">Early human settlers were caught in a geographic trap: they were squeezed from the south by a rapidly rising Persian Gulf and bombarded from above by some of the heaviest rainstorms the region had seen in thousands of years. [<a href="https://www.researchgate.net/publication/389901759_Mid-Holocene_hydroclimatic_optimum_recorded_in_a_stalagmite_from_Shalaii_Cave_northern_Iraq" target="_blank">1</a>, <a href="https://slate.com/technology/2015/11/floods-led-to-civilization-archaeology-lessons-on-climate.html" target="_blank">2</a>]<!--TgQPHd&#124;&#124;&#124;[]--></div>
<div class="yhAwj" style="font-family: Google Sans, Arial, sans-serif;font-size: 14px;font-weight: 400;margin: 0px;text-decoration: none;border-bottom: 0px #0a0a0a"><!--TgQPHd&#124;&#124;&#124;[]--></div>
<div class="AHmQrc" style="font-family: Google Sans, Arial, sans-serif;font-size: 14px;font-weight: 400;margin: 0px;text-decoration: none;border-bottom: 0px #0a0a0a">
<div class="n6owBd awi2gc" style="font-family: Google Sans, Arial, sans-serif;font-size: 16px;font-weight: 400;margin: 12px 0px 16px;text-decoration: none;border-bottom: 0px #0a0a0a">Would you like to know more about how these <strong class="rQesXe MPyX">rainstorms and rising seas<!--TgQPHd&#124;&#124;&#124;[]--></strong> actually forced nomadic people to cluster together and <strong class="rQesXe MPyX">invent the very first cities<!--TgQPHd&#124;&#124;&#124;[]--></strong> (like Uruk or Ur) to survive? [<a href="https://www.researchgate.net/publication/328269479_Holocene_climate_variability_of_Mesopotamia_and_its_impact_on_the_history_of_civilisation" target="_blank">1</a>, <a href="https://ui.adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2022EaArX....S2AQTE/abstract" target="_blank">2</a>]</div>
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					                    <pubDate>Mon, 07 Sep 2026 13:31:29 -0400</pubDate>
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                    <title>Steefen on Historical Accuracy, 2nd Edition by Steve Campbell and The Hebrew Bible and Younger Dryas, Sumer Floods vs Noah</title>
                    <link>https://ehrmanblog.org/forum/the-hebrew-bible/historical-accuracy-2nd-edition-by-steve-campbell-and-the-hebrew-bible-and-younger-dryas-sumer-floods-vs-noah/page-3/#p49405</link>
                    <category>The Hebrew Bible</category>
                    <guid isPermaLink="true">https://ehrmanblog.org/forum/the-hebrew-bible/historical-accuracy-2nd-edition-by-steve-campbell-and-the-hebrew-bible-and-younger-dryas-sumer-floods-vs-noah/page-3/#p49405</guid>
					                        <description><![CDATA[<h1 class="entry-title fusion-post-title">Two Intrigues About Noah’s Flood</h1>
<div class="custom_archives">September 5, 2026</div>
<div>by Bart Ehrman</div>
<div><a href="https://ehrmanblog.org/two-intrigues-about-noahs-flood/?unapproved=169369&amp;moderation-hash=b14e1fddd518a6ad89b082445b371066#comment-169369" target="_blank"><a href="https://ehrmanblog.org/two-int">https://ehrmanblog.org/two-int</a>.....ent-169369</a></div>
<div> </div>
<div>Comment:</div>
<div> </div>
<div>
Bart:<br />
“… it is physically impossible for a flood to cover the earth, and, as it turns out,there is no geological evidence for any such thing.”</p>
<p>Steve:<br />
Not quite:</p>
<p>There was the Black Sea Deluge (Early Holocene). As the GLOBAL ice sheets melted in the early Holocene, global sea levels rose. Around 7,500 to 9,400 years ago, the rising Mediterranean Sea got so high it overflowed its natural boundary. It permanently flooded thousands of square miles of the southern European/Anatolian coastline, displacing early agricultural communities.</p>
<p>While that was happening, Mesopotamia was experiencing its own massive environmental transformation. As the ice sheets melted globally, the Indian Ocean rose and pushed its way up into what is now the Persian Gulf, blocking the exit of the Tigris and Euphrates rivers, causing water to back up and spread out over the flat Mesopotamian planes.</p>
<p>Yes, there were massive and violent rainstorms at this time. During the Holocene Climate Optimum (9K to 6K years ago) climate created an era of intense rainfall over the region. The Indian Summer Monsoon grew and shifted west across the Arabian Peninsula into Mesopotamia–downpours hammering the Taurus mountains and the TigrisEuphrates Rivers.</p>
</div>
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					                    <pubDate>Mon, 07 Sep 2026 13:27:01 -0400</pubDate>
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                    <title>Stephen on Authorship of I Peter</title>
                    <link>https://ehrmanblog.org/forum/the-rest-of-the-new-testament/authorship-of-i-peter/#p49392</link>
                    <category>The Rest of the New Testament</category>
                    <guid isPermaLink="true">https://ehrmanblog.org/forum/the-rest-of-the-new-testament/authorship-of-i-peter/#p49392</guid>
					                        <description><![CDATA[<p>Another reason besides the style to doubt Peter's authorship is that the letter has a real Pauline flavor. Odd, since in Paul's authentic letters when he mentions Peter they are often at loggerheads.</p>
<p>Some scholars speculate that 1 Peter might be an attempt by a later generation of Christians to harmonize Peter and Paul which at that point would have meant agreeing with Paul.</p>
]]></description>
					                    <pubDate>Mon, 07 Sep 2026 10:22:14 -0400</pubDate>
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                    <title>Robert on Authorship of I Peter</title>
                    <link>https://ehrmanblog.org/forum/the-rest-of-the-new-testament/authorship-of-i-peter/#p49390</link>
                    <category>The Rest of the New Testament</category>
                    <guid isPermaLink="true">https://ehrmanblog.org/forum/the-rest-of-the-new-testament/authorship-of-i-peter/#p49390</guid>
					                        <description><![CDATA[<p>Welcome, Paul, to the Readers Forum. There are a few (but only a few) serious New Testament scholars today who defend authorship of 1 Peter by Peter through Silvanus as an amanuensis (cf 1 Pet 5,12: "Through Silvanus, whom I regard as a faithful brother, I have written to you briefly") or that it may at least contain genuine Petrine traditional material.</p>
<p>Most scholars do not think it was written or dictated by Peter. Although I've never studied the question in any depth, I typically go with the consensus of most scholars as a sensible approach. But <em>if</em> I thought Peter wrote or more likely dictated in broad strokes the content of the letter, would that affect the my estimation of the likelihood that Mark and Matthew acted somehow as authors of their gospels? It's possible they could also have used some type of secretary, but Matthew's clear dependence upon the Greek of Mark's gospel, which is almost universally attributed to post 70 CE, makes it unlikely in the extreme.</p>
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					                    <pubDate>Mon, 07 Sep 2026 10:12:40 -0400</pubDate>
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                    <title>DavidFord on Jesus Was Not a Jew</title>
                    <link>https://ehrmanblog.org/forum/the-historical-jesus/jesus-was-not-a-jew/page-4/#p49386</link>
                    <category>The Historical Jesus</category>
                    <guid isPermaLink="true">https://ehrmanblog.org/forum/the-historical-jesus/jesus-was-not-a-jew/page-4/#p49386</guid>
					                        <description><![CDATA[<p>"I’ve always felt that it was JC and/or God who has found me a half-decent place to live.<br />
It’s the one thing I have really asked for over the years. ...<br />
Perhaps also, we really need to ask for the things we need"</p>
<p>Mark 4 (NIV)<br />
<a href="https://biblehub.com/niv/mark/4.htm" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://biblehub.com/niv/mark/4.htm</a><br />
35 That day when evening came, he said to his disciples,<br />
“Let us go over to the other side.”<br />
36 Leaving the crowd behind, they took him along, just as he was, in the boat.<br />
There were also other boats with him.<br />
37 A furious squall came up, and the waves broke over the boat, so that it was nearly swamped.<br />
38 Jesus was in the stern, sleeping on a cushion.<br />
The disciples woke him and said to him,<br />
“Teacher, don’t you care if we drown?”<br />
39 He got up, rebuked the wind and said to the waves,<br />
“Quiet!<br />
Be still!”<br />
Then the wind died down and it was completely calm.<br />
40 He said to his disciples,<br />
“Why are you so afraid?<br />
Do you still have no faith?”<br />
41 They were terrified and asked each other,<br />
“Who is this?<br />
Even the wind and the waves obey him!”</p>
<p>Frederick Dodson, _You Can Heal Anyone_ (2022), 137pp., on 17<br />
<br />
The most amazing part of this verse is that Jesus was expecting his students to be able to stop the storm.<br />
It's mind-boggling how most "Christian" churches teach the exact opposite of this.<br />
They teach that you cannot stop the storm; only God can stop it.<br />
But Jesus taught that humans are equipped to do it.<br />
He expected it of them and got frustrated when they wouldn't exercise their powers.<br />
...<br />
In John 14:12, we read:<br />
"Most assuredly, I say to you,<br />
he who believes in Me,<br />
the works that I do he will do also;<br />
and greater works than these will he do."</p>
<p>If I were to teach this in church I'd be kicked out of most churches for being a heretic.<br />
That's how corrupted "religion" is.<br />
Yes, believe it or not, this Bible verse, quoting Jesus says YOU can do it.<br />
And that is my experience, too.<br />
YOU are equipped with powers, by birth.<br />
You have more than you know, more than you use.</p>
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					                    <pubDate>Mon, 07 Sep 2026 09:40:31 -0400</pubDate>
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                    <title>Helen Young on A Personal View of Some Current Events</title>
                    <link>https://ehrmanblog.org/forum/other-relevant-issues/a-personal-view-of-some-current-events/page-11/#p49379</link>
                    <category>Other Relevant Issues</category>
                    <guid isPermaLink="true">https://ehrmanblog.org/forum/other-relevant-issues/a-personal-view-of-some-current-events/page-11/#p49379</guid>
					                        <description><![CDATA[<blockquote class="spPostEmbedQuote">
<p><strong>Stephen said </strong><br />
Agreed. Perhaps we will wise up and do like the rest of nature and derive our energy from that big beautiful blazing ball in the sky. <br />
What is the old cynic's quote?<br />
Humans can always be counted on to do the right thing. After they've tried everything else.<br />
The problem is that we're really lousy at deferring short term pleasures for long term gains.<br />
  </p>
</blockquote>
<p>Why is it that we have to try everything else first?</p>
<p>One problem is that it's not just about our short term pleasures, though that's an issue as well.</p>
<p>It's also about our short term real life and death survival needs. People need food today, not a week or a month or two from now. People need shelter, not next weekend, but right now. People need clothing; it's not an option, it's an immediate need. There are real parts of this world where heat is a real life-and-death need. There's also transportation, which a lot of people need to get the things that they really, really need. Then there's infants and children who have a whole lot of real needs, and which is entirely another subject.</p>
<p>All we can do is do the best we can and make the transitions as best and as quickly as we can. Hopefully there are enough people doing this so we can make things better in and on real time.</p>
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					                    <pubDate>Mon, 07 Sep 2026 08:33:01 -0400</pubDate>
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                    <title>Helen Young on Marcion and the second god he made up</title>
                    <link>https://ehrmanblog.org/forum/christianity-after-the-new-testament/marcion-and-the-second-god-he-made-up/page-2/#p49376</link>
                    <category>Christianity After the New Testament</category>
                    <guid isPermaLink="true">https://ehrmanblog.org/forum/christianity-after-the-new-testament/marcion-and-the-second-god-he-made-up/page-2/#p49376</guid>
					                        <description><![CDATA[<blockquote class="spPostEmbedQuote">
<p><strong>Stephen said </strong><br />
The question was never about whether Christians needed to follow the Law.</p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote class="spPostEmbedQuote">
<p>
Well there was clearly some controversy amongst early Christians.  And it seems pretty obvious that the Apostle Paul and the writer of the Gospel of Matthew did not agree on this issue.  As the church became increasingly dominated by Gentile converts, Paul's view won the day. Subsequently Matthew has been reinterpreted to mean the opposite of what it actually says, that Christians must follow the Torah even more stringently than the Pharisees.  Strangely, "fulfill" has come to mean " do away with"!<br />
  </p>
</blockquote>
<p>There are two issues here:</p>
<p>One is about how much Jewish Christians should continue to follow all of the Jewish Laws as opposed to Gentile Christians. Should, or is it okay for Jewish Christians to continue eating kosher and things like that? Perhaps one of the questions might be if Jewish and Gentile Christians are going to eat together, who is going to do the cooking? Wouldn't it be okay for Gentile Christians to eat kosher once in a while when they are having a meal with Jewish Christians?</p>
<p>The other issue is about following the Law more stringently than the Pharisees. Bart has mentioned this in some of his talks. He states that Jesus said that people should take the Law to an even higher level. The Law says, "Do not murder"; Jesus says, "Don't even get angry". The Law says, "Don't commit adultery"; Jesus says, "Don't even look at a person that way". The Law says, "an eye for an eye"; Jesus says, "turn the other cheek". There are some other things like this that take the Law to a higher level, and perhaps one could say make it more "stringent" or complete.</p>
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					                    <pubDate>Mon, 07 Sep 2026 07:45:36 -0400</pubDate>
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                    <title>Serene on Jesus Was Not a Jew</title>
                    <link>https://ehrmanblog.org/forum/the-historical-jesus/jesus-was-not-a-jew/page-4/#p49375</link>
                    <category>The Historical Jesus</category>
                    <guid isPermaLink="true">https://ehrmanblog.org/forum/the-historical-jesus/jesus-was-not-a-jew/page-4/#p49375</guid>
					                        <description><![CDATA[<blockquote class="spPostEmbedQuote">
<p>
<strong>Stephen said </strong><br />
His disciples said to him: "On what day will the kingdom come?" "It will not come when it is expected. No one will say: 'See, it is here!' or: 'Look, it is there!' but the Kingdom of the Father is spread over the earth and men do not see it."<br />
- Gospel of Thomas Saying 113<br />
  </p>
</blockquote>
<p>Great finding, because the Nabataeans use double names (embracing the host culture) and are all over the world at this point. Soon, Phillip the Arab will be the Emperor of Rome, and he is said to be the first emperor to practice the ancestor cult of Christianity.</p>
<p><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_the_Arab" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/</a>.....p_the_Arab</a></p>
<p>Phillip the Arab, <em>Marcus Julius Philippus, </em>comes from Arabia Petraea, the territories the Romans acquired from Nabataea, and Petra was the capital at the time of  Nabataean King Malichus (a name meaning King, which is the anointed one.)</p>
<p>The Nabataeans are a path people, it is only their Kingdom that had people embedded all over the world. </p>
<p> </p>
<p>It <em>stacks</em> meanings.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>I wonder why bi-culturalism seems less easy to grasp, it's a little like the idea of holding "two thoughts at once."</p>
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					                    <pubDate>Mon, 07 Sep 2026 07:41:53 -0400</pubDate>
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                    <title>paul24gracie on Authorship of I Peter</title>
                    <link>https://ehrmanblog.org/forum/the-rest-of-the-new-testament/authorship-of-i-peter/#p49370</link>
                    <category>The Rest of the New Testament</category>
                    <guid isPermaLink="true">https://ehrmanblog.org/forum/the-rest-of-the-new-testament/authorship-of-i-peter/#p49370</guid>
					                        <description><![CDATA[<p>Peter has been traditionally thought to have been the author of I Peter. But how could he be the author if he was illiterate? I bring this up because one reason that is cited for Mark and Matthew likely not actually being the authors of their respective Gospels is that they were probably illiterate, and almost certainly not fluent in spoken and written Greek. Since Peter made his living as a fisherman I believe it's very likely that he was also illiterate and certainly not capable of producing a polished written document in Greek like I Peter. So why is Peter thought to actually be the author of I Peter? And if he actually did write that epistle, doesn't that suggest that Mark and Matthew may have also been capable of writing their Gospels?</p>
]]></description>
					                    <pubDate>Mon, 07 Sep 2026 07:00:23 -0400</pubDate>
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                    <title>Stephen on A Personal View of Some Current Events</title>
                    <link>https://ehrmanblog.org/forum/other-relevant-issues/a-personal-view-of-some-current-events/page-11/#p49369</link>
                    <category>Other Relevant Issues</category>
                    <guid isPermaLink="true">https://ehrmanblog.org/forum/other-relevant-issues/a-personal-view-of-some-current-events/page-11/#p49369</guid>
					                        <description><![CDATA[<p>Agreed. Perhaps we will wise up and do like the rest of nature and derive our energy from that big beautiful blazing ball in the sky. </p>
<p>What is the old cynic's quote?</p>
<p>Humans can always be counted on to do the right thing. After they've tried everything else.</p>
<p>The problem is that we're really lousy at deferring short term pleasures for long term gains.</p>
]]></description>
					                    <pubDate>Mon, 07 Sep 2026 06:52:46 -0400</pubDate>
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                    <title>Helen Young on A Personal View of Some Current Events</title>
                    <link>https://ehrmanblog.org/forum/other-relevant-issues/a-personal-view-of-some-current-events/page-11/#p49367</link>
                    <category>Other Relevant Issues</category>
                    <guid isPermaLink="true">https://ehrmanblog.org/forum/other-relevant-issues/a-personal-view-of-some-current-events/page-11/#p49367</guid>
					                        <description><![CDATA[<blockquote class="spPostEmbedQuote">
<p><strong>Stephen said </strong></p>
<blockquote class="spPostEmbedQuote">
<p>Helen Young said<br />
Stephen<br />
 <br />
Well, regardless, we shouldn't be destroying this Earth.<br />
  </p>
</blockquote>
<p>Well, in truth, the earth is not in danger. It has been rolling along for billions of years and will survive for billions more. What we are destroying is our place on the earth which got along fine before us and will do so after us. What is happening is best described, not as a murder, but as a suicide.<br />
  </p>
</blockquote>
<p>I guess it's not the Earth itself that is in danger, but the surface of the Earth and what makes it habitable. It's suicide, but in the process, we are going to take an awful lot of other life forms with us. It is the "murder" of a real lot of other life forms as well.</p>
<p>I'm not one of these - everybody go freeze, starve, and die - environmentalists. But I do think we should do everything we possibly can to avoid global catastrophe.</p>
<p>From a conservative point of view, we are going to need all the forms of energy that we can produce in order to have a balanced, peaceful, and sustainable future.</p>
<p>It goes without saying that clean, sustainable, nonpolluting energy forms are the best and the best for creating a sustainable and decent future. Conservation and non-wasteful practices are also very important here.</p>
<p>Is it murder or suicide or both? Either way, I don't think it's a good idea.</p>
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					                    <pubDate>Mon, 07 Sep 2026 06:42:09 -0400</pubDate>
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                    <title>Helen Young on Jesus Was Not a Jew</title>
                    <link>https://ehrmanblog.org/forum/the-historical-jesus/jesus-was-not-a-jew/page-4/#p49363</link>
                    <category>The Historical Jesus</category>
                    <guid isPermaLink="true">https://ehrmanblog.org/forum/the-historical-jesus/jesus-was-not-a-jew/page-4/#p49363</guid>
					                        <description><![CDATA[<blockquote class="spPostEmbedQuote">
<p>
<strong>DavidFord </strong><br />
What's involved in a Xtian being "too fundamentalistic"?<br />
  </p>
</blockquote>
<p>Things like having to believe in:</p>
<p>A God that requires a human sacrifice (for any reason).</p>
<p>That we are all so sinful that we all deserve the death penalty. (Idk what made a person deserving of the death penalty back in the 1st century, but I have a pretty good idea what constitutes it now in the US and in the West).</p>
<p>That women aren't equal and should have the same amount of say, voice, and influence as men.</p>
<p>A flat earth that was created 6000 years ago.</p>
<p>That only two people were living on Earth and in Mesopotamia 6000 years ago, when the archaeological evidence clearly proves and shows otherwise.</p>
<p>A sun that revolves around the earth.</p>
<p>The emblematic cannibalism that is suggested in the eucharist.</p>
<p>That Paul of Tarsus, someone who never met Jesus during his earthly ministry and who only actually quotes Jesus like 3 times, is right all that time and is always speaking and conveying the word of God.</p>
<p>That the entire bible is entirely and nothing but the word of God.</p>
<p>That a married person can't say "no" to their spouse at any time. This includes when they may have really, really good reasons for saying no. (Things like not wanting another child, not being able to afford another child, having a heart condition, having an injury or an illness, not wanting to take the real risks involved in pregnancy and childbirth, being totally disgusted and turned off by their spouse.... I'm sure there is more that could be added here).</p>
<p>That fear, instead of awe &#038; love, is the right attitude and relationship that we should have towards God.</p>
<p>Talking snakes</p>
<p>-----------------------------------------------------------</p>
<p>I could go on, there's more. But this is enough to make the point for right now.</p>
<p>Thanks for reading</p>
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					                    <pubDate>Mon, 07 Sep 2026 05:41:49 -0400</pubDate>
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                    <title>Jill_L on A Personal View of Some Current Events</title>
                    <link>https://ehrmanblog.org/forum/other-relevant-issues/a-personal-view-of-some-current-events/page-11/#p49362</link>
                    <category>Other Relevant Issues</category>
                    <guid isPermaLink="true">https://ehrmanblog.org/forum/other-relevant-issues/a-personal-view-of-some-current-events/page-11/#p49362</guid>
					                        <description><![CDATA[<p>gambling? I see where Europe (in general) has sort of slacked on its climate protocols due to economic disadvantage. Well who can blame? Change will take enormous investment in life style change and use of resources. I don't think any one person or small group of voices can effect that.</p>
<p>Everybody wants to go to the moon. Geez. </p>
]]></description>
					                    <pubDate>Mon, 07 Sep 2026 05:35:18 -0400</pubDate>
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                    <title>Helen Young on Jesus Was Not a Jew</title>
                    <link>https://ehrmanblog.org/forum/the-historical-jesus/jesus-was-not-a-jew/page-4/#p49361</link>
                    <category>The Historical Jesus</category>
                    <guid isPermaLink="true">https://ehrmanblog.org/forum/the-historical-jesus/jesus-was-not-a-jew/page-4/#p49361</guid>
					                        <description><![CDATA[<div class="spPostUserName spCenter">DavidFord,</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Thanks for your last post on the writings of John Pulsford. The wording is a bit old-fashioned, but why wouldn't it be? It was written in 1887.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>This may seem a bit odd and funny, and I don't exactly live in a mansion, but I've always felt that it was JC and/or God who has found me a half-decent place to live. It's the one thing I have really asked for over the years. </div>
<div> </div>
<div>Perhaps there really is something unseen and unrealized happening here. </div>
<div> </div>
<div>-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Perhaps also, we really need to ask for the things we need. I've been finding that rather uncannily true lately. </div>
<div> </div>
<div>Thanks for reading</div>
]]></description>
					                    <pubDate>Mon, 07 Sep 2026 05:07:58 -0400</pubDate>
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                    <title>DavidFord on Jesus Was Not a Jew</title>
                    <link>https://ehrmanblog.org/forum/the-historical-jesus/jesus-was-not-a-jew/page-4/#p49360</link>
                    <category>The Historical Jesus</category>
                    <guid isPermaLink="true">https://ehrmanblog.org/forum/the-historical-jesus/jesus-was-not-a-jew/page-4/#p49360</guid>
					                        <description><![CDATA[<p>"What is concerning is the two point three/four billion Christians in this world of eight billion people.<br />
It should be a different world!<br />
Salt that has lost its savor?"</p>
<p>"maybe Christians are too fundamentalistic, and that is the problem?"</p>
<p>What's involved in a Xtian being "too fundamentalistic"?</p>
]]></description>
					                    <pubDate>Mon, 07 Sep 2026 04:55:05 -0400</pubDate>
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