Kris said
For me, i grew up in a very fundamentalist religion and things like the temples were indicators of the end of the world.  Being in this type of religion really messed me up so i have tried to find discrepancies to show myself not to worry about these kinds of things. I always took comfort in the fact that the bible never mentions a third temple. It freaked me out when i found out Tobit might.   
  

Hi Kris,

Welcome to the forum!

I don't know much about Tolbit. I have heard that there were actually two temples in the 2nd Temple period. One built by the Jews newly returned from Babylon, and then one built by Herod. 

I've had some confusion about "the end of the world" messages that we get in the bible myself. Realize, however, that at the very end of the bible, in the book of Revelation, there is the New Jerusalem. The New Jerusalem is like 1,500 miles cubed; it is a very big place. There is also the inside of the NJ and the outside of it as well. The earth is still here. - - I've wondered and have even been told, by a preacher's wife that "the end of the world" actually means the end of worldliness or a kind of worldliness, or "the end of the world as we know it," so to speak.

I've also been told that "fear of God" should actually be translated as "awe of God".

Sorry that I don't know more, but I hope this helps.

Welcome again to the forum. 

NRSVue:* But God will again have mercy on them, and God will bring them back into the land of Israel; and they will rebuild the temple of God, but not like the first one until the period when the times of fulfillment shall come. After this they all will return from their exile and will rebuild Jerusalem in splendor; and in it the temple of God will be rebuilt, just as the prophets of Israel have said concerning it. 6 Then the nations in the whole world will all be converted and worship God in truth. They will all abandon their idols, which deceitfully have led them into their error; 7 and in righteousness they will praise the eternal God. All the Israelites who are saved in those days and are truly mindful of God will be gathered together; they will go to Jerusalem and live in safety forever in the land of Abraham, and it will be given over to them. Those who sincerely love God will rejoice, but those who commit sin and injustice will vanish from all the earth.

I've color coded the original temple of Solomon in red, the temple rebuilt after the Babylonian Exile in blue, and the eschatological temple in green.

Carey A. Moore in his Anchor Bible Commentary on the book of Tobit, p 291, cites Ezra 3,12–13 as evidence that the "returning exiles who remembered the Solomonic Temple wept over the inferior foundations of the postexilic one. Not until around 20 BCE, in the days of Herod the Great (37–4 BCE), did the Second Temple begin to surpass the greatness of the First Temple."

But many of the priests and Levites and heads of families, old people who had seen the first house on its foundations, wept with a loud voice when they saw this house, though many shouted aloud for joy, so that the people could not distinguish the sound of the joyful shout from the sound of the people’s weeping, for the people shouted so loudly that the sound was heard far away.

I would also note that the gospel of Mark may provide indirect evidence that Jesus himself predicted a miraculous coming of a third temple, evidence that it seeks to discredit in Mk 14,56-59:

For many gave false testimony against him, and their testimony did not agree. Some stood up and gave false testimony against him, saying, “We heard him say, ‘I will destroy this temple that is made with hands, and in three days I will build another, not made with hands.’” But even on this point their testimony did not agree.

Instead of this, Mark seems to merely portray Jesus as predicting the destruction of the Temple in 70 CE, which would have occurred sometime prior to his writing of the gospel.  

*Note that the NRSVue's reconstruction of the underlying text makes eclectic text-critical choices from GI (Vaticanus, Alexandrinus, Vulgate), especially Greek GII witnesses (DSS 4Q198, Codex Sinaiticus, Old Latin), but based on a review of NETS GI and GII, I think the three-fold temple scheme is present in all of the available evidence.

NETS G1:

But again God will have mercy on them, and he will bring them back into the land, and they will build the house, not like the former one, until the appointed times of the age will be completed. Then after this they will return from their captivities, and they will build Ierousalem honorably. And the house of God will be built in it as a glorious building for all the generations of the age, just as the prophets said concerning it. Then all the nations will turn back truly to fear the Lord God, and they will bury their idols. And all the nations will bless the Lord, and his people will acknowledge God, and the Lord will exalt his people. And all who love the Lord God in truth and righteousness will rejoice, showing mercy to our kindred.

NETS G2 critical reconstruction:

But again God will have mercy on them, and God will bring them back into the land of Israel, and again they will build the house, but not like the first one, until the time when the time of the appointed times [of the age] will be completed. Then after this they all will return from their captivity [ies], and they will build Ierousalem honorably. And the house of God will be built in it [as a glorious building for all the generations of the age], just as the prophets of Israel said concerning it. 6 Then all the nations in the whole world will turn back and truly fear God. And all will abandon their idols, which deceitfully have made them err in their error. 7 And they will bless the God of the ages in righteousness. All the sons of Israel who are saved in those days, mindful of God in truth, will be gathered together. And they will go into Ierousalem and live forever in the land of Abraam with security, and it will be given over to them. And those who love God in truth will rejoice, but those who commit sin and injustice will vanish from all the earth.

Wow, the last time I remember reading the book of Tobit would have been the Summer of 1978, 'though I must have read it at least once again within the next few years. So I'm no expert on the book of Tobit!

But I do think he is referring to a third temple that would serve the needs of the fully reconstituted Israel in Jerusalem along with all of the gentile converts. Not sure if he's specifically referencing Ezekiel's temple, 'though I would think that's certainly a possibility. Why do you want to discount this as some type of proof that there were writings about a third temple being rebuilt?

Even though scholars generally agree that Tobit was written in the late 3rd to early 2nd century BCE, the events described in the story take place during the 8th-century BCE, during the Assyrian exile (around 722 BCE).  So, the prophesy of the Temple being destroyed is about the First Temple, and the prophesy of the temple being rebuilt is about the Second Temple.   The biblical book of Daniel is similar in being about ancient times but actually written much later.  

I'm not completely familiar with the idea of a Third temple except that it is associated with the Parousia, the "End Times".  But then you also have traditions that indicate there is no need for another Temple since God will be present with his people in the Kingdom. 

Hope that helps. 

I know that in the Bible there is no mention of a third temple, but wasn’t sure if Tobit is speaking to that. Could Tobit also be trying to add in prophecy to support Ezekiel‘s temple not yet being built in his time and is that what he is talking about?

Any help that anyone can provide on this information would be greatly appreciated. I am just trying to discount this as some type of proof that there were writings about a third temple being rebuilt.

One of the aspects of Merkabah that most fascinates me is that it is a communal mysticism, meaning that one does not have one's own unique, personal experience.  There are pre-ordained paths that one must prepare oneself for before embarking on the journey. 

I seem to have left this thread hanging.   Too bad since this is an area of ongoing interest. 

joetherob said
Merkavah is a great example of how cosmogonical motifs diffuse into the transcendant experience. Mystics draw upon internal temporal manifestations of their subconscious to decorate the spiritual journey of henosis with familiar furnishings to lessen anxiety...the throne chariot, visions of a royal court, etc. are features that obscure and prevent authentic integration with the divine consciousness. True integration with the divine consciousness requires the embrace of nothingness. 
  

Hi Joe, if you're new to the forum, welcome.

Is it "nothingness," or nothing visible or temporal, that you are referring to?

Steefen said

= = = 
You, 1st Adam, mention A to Z.
Then what are you saying about the Father and the Son? Are you saying Azazel presents itself as the Father and the Son?
  

azazel is the enemy!

I strongly  disagree, the end doesn't exist, you are hypnotized; IF CHRIST IS THE BEGINNING [ARHE], AND HIS KINGDOM IS EVERLASTING, THAT MEANS THE END DOESN'T EXIST AT ALL:

The Everlasting Kingdom: The Bible frequently describes Christ’s kingdom as having "no end" (Luke 1:33).

Whoever says he is the end, I don't trust him. When Jesus says he is the beginning [John ], it makes perfect sense to trust him. THE PROBLEM ARE FORGED TRANSLATIONS.

Azazel
deploying individual sensory illusion
deceives the individual by distorting perception and the ego

= = =

Since the Church only gave Christians 1 enemy, Satan is a combination of both?

Satan is known for not telling the truth, Satan is more Azazel than Semjaza?

Jesus did speak against institutional rules, so his Satan appears in the biblical biography of Jesus.

= = =

= = = 

You, 1st Adam, mention A to Z.

Then what are you saying about the Father and the Son? Are you saying Azazel presents itself as the Father and the Son?

• • The Oath of Mount Hermon: Before descending, Semjaza explicitly tells his associates: "I fear ye will not indeed agree to do this deed, and I alone shall have to pay the penalty of a great sin." [** you do not have permission to see this link **]
  • The Blame Mechanism: He forces all 200 to bind themselves by mutual imprecations (curses). His goal is to ensure that if he falls, everyone falls with him. He pre-blames his subordinates to prevent them from later claiming they were "just following orders." [** you do not have permission to see this link **]

• • The Textual Sentence: In the texts, the higher realms shift the ultimate weight away from Semjaza's marital rebellion and place it squarely on Azazel's systemic corruption. The decree states: "All earth has been corrupted through the works that were taught by Azazel: to him ascribe all the sin." [** you do not have permission to see this link **]
  • The Blame Mechanism: Azazel is structurally turned into the scapegoat. Semjaza and his cohort are bound under the hills, but Azazel is cast into absolute darkness (Dudael), carrying the entire blame for the structural ruin of the earthly plane. [** you do not have permission to see this link **]

• Semjaza tried to distribute the blame across a web of collective oaths to hide his own ego. [** you do not have permission to see this link **]
• The Scribes used Azazel as a cosmic trash bin to absorb all structural evil, distracting from the fact that the underlying spiritual systems themselves were fractured.

• Az (\(A_{z}\)): This is the very first letter of the Old Church Slavonic Glagolitic and Cyrillic alphabets. It literally translates to the pronoun "I" or "myself". [** you do not have permission to see this link **]
• Buki / Bukva: This is the second letter, meaning "letter" or "character." [** you do not have permission to see this link **]
• The Tree Connection: Linguistically, bukva shares an ancient Proto-Indo-European root with the word for beech tree (similar to the English word book coming from beech). In early European traditions, runic and alphabetic symbols were frequently carved onto wooden staves or beech tablets. Therefore, Az-Bukva conceptually unites "I" with "The Tree/Letter."
• The Acrostic Alphabet: When the letters are read in order as a poem, they begin with a profound statement of self-awareness: "Az buki vedi..." which translates to: "I know the letters" or "I, the living being, know the world."

• The Righteous Man: Psalm 1:3 describes a righteous person as "a tree planted by streams of water," yielding fruit in its season. [** you do not have permission to see this link **]
• Spiritual Rulers: In Ezekiel 31, powerful empires and spiritual beings (often tied to the Watchers or fallen angels like Semjaza) are personified as the great cedars of Lebanon, whose tops reach the clouds. [** you do not have permission to see this link **]
• Jesus and the Vine: Christ personifies Himself as "the true vine" (John 15), where individual humans are branches extending from the main trunk.

• The complete translation of the Glagolitic alphabet poem (Az Buki Vedi...)
• Specific biblical passages where people are explicitly described as walking trees
• The linguistic history linking trees to the invention of writing books