Tjalling said:

I offered to examine the arguments for and against it, not to promote or praise it. I would normally be quite willing to state my own position, but I would prefer to do so in a setting that feels safe enough for careful exploration, rather than one in which that position is immediately framed as something I must celebrate or defend. Your framing makes me more cautious about doing so here.

I'd love to hear your position and reasons for it.  

You mean other than the fact you haven't even  demonstrated that God exists in the first place?

I offered to examine the arguments for and against it, not to promote or praise it. I would normally be quite willing to state my own position, but I would prefer to do so in a setting that feels safe enough for careful exploration, rather than one in which that position is immediately framed as something I must celebrate or defend. Your framing makes me more cautious about doing so here.

In Chapter 3, Apkallus and Fishers of Men

Chapter 4 Kingship Models and the Dying-Rising King
King of Kings, Lord of Lords
Istar-Inanna as Dying-Rising Goddess
Tammuz-Dumuzi, the Divine Shepherd-King, Fisher-King

Chapter 5 Ninurta, Nimrod, Abimelech and Christ: A Case Study of Mediated Influence
Ninurta's Legacy and the Colossians Hymn

Chapter 6 Marduk, Istar and Nabu and New Testament Christology
The cult of Nabu compared with the NT presentation of Christ
Father and Son: Jesus and the Father, Nabu and Marduk
Wisdom Personified and Glorious Bridegroom: Jesus, Solomon, Nabu

Chapter 7 Bloodlines, Omens and Festivals
The Matthean Genealogy: Its Structure and Significance
Jesus' Final Passover in light of the Babylonian Akitu Festival

Robert said

Serene said
I'm the original muse/kernel of truth for a very popular Star Trek character, where's my churches 😞

Which character? How did that come to pass?
  

Thank you so much for asking Robert, but it's not important. I've just never had fun going into more detail on some stuffs when I'm writing on other stuffs. 

I'll make up for my undershare by sharing a book I just found minutes ago:

** you do not have permission to see this link **
** you do not have permission to see this link **
** you do not have permission to see this link **
— Dr. Robin Baker
University of Winchester, 2022

In this ground-breaking study, Robin Baker investigates the contribution ancient
Mesopotamian theology made to the origins of Christianity. Drawing on a
formidable range of primary sources, Baker’s conclusions challenge the widely held
opinion that the theological imprint of Babylonia and Assyria on the New Testament
is minimal, and what Mesopotamian legacy it contains was mediated by the Hebrew
Bible and ancient Jewish sources. After evaluating and substantially supplementing
previous research on this mediation, Baker demonstrates significant direct
Mesopotamian influence on the New Testament presentation of Jesus and
particularly the character of his kingship. He also identifies likely channels of
transmission. Baker documents substantial differences among New Testament
authors in borrowing Mesopotamian conceptions to formulate their Christology.
This monograph is an essential resource for specialists and students of the New
Testament as well as for scholars interested in religious transmission in the ancient
Near East and the afterlife of Mesopotamian culture.

Stephen said

Serene said
I don't see anyone praying to Spiderman.
  

Now, no, but in 400 years? 
  

415 years ago Shakespeare wrote The Tempest with the magical character of Ariel.

•Ariel's name in the Hebrew Bible means "Lion of God"

• Aslan, I mean Ariel, has powers over storms and water and slipping out invisibly

• Ariel guides the fate of a group of humans per the wishes of a tempestuous Lord

• Ariel intercedes with the Lord to show mercy to humans, "virtue rarer than vengeance"

Ariel is the spirit. Prospero is the Lord. Alonso, meaning  "noble-ready" is the king that is supposedly ded but, but, but, but, but, but guess what??!!! It's a THEATRICAL RUSE ORDEAL OF REDEMPTION.

No one is praying to Ariel, Prospero, or Alonso. 

People are praying to Haile Selassie.

Jah Rastafari, King of Kings and Lord of Lords, Lion of Judah. 

** you do not have permission to see this link ** 🦁

The ** you do not have permission to see this link ** are an Abrahamic religion that believe Haile Selassie to be the living incarnation of Jah (name for God in some Psalms) and the reincarnation of Jesus. So believing in the possibility of Jesus' reincarnation, like the Druze, the Mandaeans, Edgar Cayce's Christians and others.

What did Haile Selassie do? He promised to, and took in a large group, mostly poor and illiterate descendants of slaves in subsistence-agrarian Jamaica and gave them far-away promised land, with their spiritual leaders even receiving high-income positions. 

THIS is the weight and leverage needed to start a new religion. 

Bob Marley was his greatest messenger. Bob Marley believed Haile Selassie was God. 

Marley always started his concerts with the words ‘Greetings in the Name of His Imperial Majesty Emperor Haile Selassie the First, Jah Rastafari’.

— Murielle Schlup, ** you do not have permission to see this link **, 2022

I've heard Marley's songs about this religion covered live from the jungle to the Manhattan subway. I have seen a shrine that has Haile Selassie's picture at a friend's house. It was the only photo of someone that people claimed to be God on there, and the rest were claimed miracle workers.

DID Haile Selassie have another name before he ascended to the throne? Yes he did. Ras Tafari. You could hear Rastafari many many times and never recognize that he delivered on his promises under another name. I think Jesus and Malichus II could fit this scenario, too.

IF Haile Selassie had simply considered himself a candidate for King before rising to King of Kings, in Ethiopian called "Negusa Nagast," and hypothetically been rejected by that kingdom, could he have risen to King of Kings via another kingdom (such as my hypothetical case for Jesus and Malichus II)? Sure, he wasn't a son of the king, but a cousin several times removed; and the Ethiopian Empire incorporated numerous old regional crowns and historical territories such as Shewa, Gojjam, Begemder, Tigray, and Harar, along with southern kingdoms like Kaffa and Wolaita.

I think John 10:16 can encompass this interpretation.

I have other sheep that do not belong to this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to my voice. So there will be one flock, one shepherd.

The news is filled with:

• dozens of cults that sprang up because marginalized people were provided long-term food and shelter

 and

• zero (0) cults that archaeologists trace back to just a 400-year-old TALE. 

(I know you're not a mythicist Stephen).

So let's get to literary embellishment possibilities, returning to the example of Santa Claus, who is originally the 4th Century Bishop Nicolaus of Myra. He was THE high authority of Myra, running both its economic and spiritual life, and enters myth by tossing bags of gold through a window for impoverished children. He spent a lifetime being basically the first to introduce systemic charity backed by big pockets. So, Nicolaus of Myra's is also a lifetime of real wish-granting, like Haile Selassie, that was legendized.

Another famous Negusa Nagast

Then there's another famous Negusa Nagast besides Haile Selassie — the al-Najashi who surahs say rescued Mohammad's pbuh people in 615 CE, while the great Quran says that it was God who rescued them. Maybe it's God working through al-Najashi?

👉Unfortunately, no dirty street preacher without resources and without much of a following in his own lifetime (Dr. Ehrman's position, though I agree with him on other things), has ever gotten worshiped — just — for talking about a "slightly different" afterlife lol. "Slightly different" because the Gentiles have some really wonderful afterlife concepts, but look who jumped on board the most, the Gentiles. 

Because the Gospels and Apostle Paul's stories are so close to the time of the events (he writes in the 50s) before legendization had time to snowball, to me this all adds to the weight of evidence that Jesus would have actually, really provided meals for 4,000+ and 5,000+, (there being ~4,000 vessels found at Qumran, and also because banqueting the masses is a genuine Nabataean Arab custom) via angels which just means messengers in koine Greek, had his disciples treat people with anointing oils, and made good on the 100x land. 

But also there's so many data points showing Jewish refugees arriving in Nabataean-controlled areas.

If this was intended for me I must confess I'm not sure what is being asked.

Rereading my first comment I might give the impression that I am a Jesus mythicist.  Nothing could be further from the truth. The gospels however are acts of literature. I suspect that very few of the narrative details depicted in the gospels are historical. 

Serene said
I'm the original muse/kernel of truth for a very popular Star Trek character, where's my churches 😞

Which character? How did that come to pass?

I'm the original muse/kernel of truth for a very popular Star Trek character, where's my churches 😞

Serene said
I don't see anyone praying to Spiderman.
  

Now, no, but in 400 years? 

I read a lot in the Merkabah mystical Hekhalot literature and you get just this attitude.   At every level of mystical attainment there are certain powers associated with that level.  The texts move back and forth seamlessly from mystical insight to acts of power.  I think we moderns expect our sages to be above such things as turning water into wine.