Judith said
Do not mean to be contrary. I read a lot and find myself incredulous over how writers (especially some of our bloggers here) can find the words to describe and/or say what seems impossible. Someone here mentioned "the pearl clutchers", a perfect way to describe those of us squeamish about too much vulgarity. (Married and with two sons, I've heard it all!)
  

I used to cuss like the best of them.

Not so much anymore.

Right now, I'm thinking it was long enough ago that I've forgotten how. Even forgotten that I did it.

Judith said
Helen Young, that's my first cut and paste job! Can't believe how easy it is to do.
  

Glad it worked for you.

Still don't think the description of drinking lemonade is the same as tasting it. 

But that's okay.

Would you believe AI can! When reading what you wrote, I found myself wondering if that could be true. 

** you do not have permission to see this link **

Stephen said 
And another whose source I cannot recall:
All authentic revelations contain a component of terror.  The first words from the mouth of the angels is always "Fear not!"   

Sounds like Rudolf Otto maybe? Also reminds me of Rainer Maria Rilke: "** you do not have permission to see this link **." 

Stephen said

Helen Young said

Serene said
I choose my God concept based on what consistently delivers on bliss, comfort, safety, ease, and success
  

I agree with that. Or at least most of it.
If something out there (& through inside myself) is giving me bliss, enlightenment, a better understanding of things, a better perception of things, balance, safety, even love, that is God. There's more to it; there's always more, but that is a real part of who and what God is.
  

But ladies doesn't this almost guarantee that your God will simply be a projection of your personal hopes and desires? 

Nope. No, No, No, No. Nope.

No offense intended but I immediately think of the quote from Richard Feynman:
The first principle is that you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest person to fool.  
And another whose source I cannot recall:
All authentic revelations contain a component of terror.  The first words from the mouth of the angels is always "Fear not!"   
  

There is nothing to be afraid of in God. Maybe that's one of the stunts they pull to prevent people from getting into and going into God. To keep people down and out, and to keep them giving money to the church or something. To quote JS Spong, "Fear is a great way of controlling people".

If you haven't experienced it, if you haven't experienced a kind of oneness with God or JC, I don't think one person can explain it to another. 

A person can't explain what drinking lemonade is like; people just have to experience it. If people can't explain that, how can they explain experiencing God's Spirit?  Maybe people can give other people hints, but that's about it. 

Is there any reason why the experience of God can't or wouldn't be very positive? Doesn't it even make sense that it is? There's more to it, but doesn't it make sense that this is really the way it is?

Helen Young said

Serene said
I choose my God concept based on what consistently delivers on bliss, comfort, safety, ease, and success
  

I agree with that. Or at least most of it.
If something out there (& through inside myself) is giving me bliss, enlightenment, a better understanding of things, a better perception of things, balance, safety, even love, that is God. There's more to it; there's always more, but that is a real part of who and what God is.
  

But ladies doesn't this almost guarantee that your God will simply be a projection of your personal hopes and desires?  No offense intended but I immediately think of the quote from Richard Feynman:

The first principle is that you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest person to fool.  

And another whose source I cannot recall:

All authentic revelations contain a component of terror.  The first words from the mouth of the angels is always "Fear not!"   

Serene said

I choose my God concept based on what consistently delivers on bliss, comfort, safety, ease, and success
  

I agree with that. Or at least most of it.

If something out there (& through inside myself) is giving me bliss, enlightenment, a better understanding of things, a better perception of things, balance, safety, even love, that is God. There's more to it; there's always more, but that is a real part of who and what God is.

It didn't happen to the rescued Jewish people. And the much, much bigger group is those that Revelation didn't affect at all, like gentiles or diaspora.

I choose my God concept based on what consistently delivers on bliss, comfort, safety, ease, and success

Sometimes I just agree with those people who say it shouldn't be in the bible.

Sometimes I think that some of the things in Revelation have already happened (the black plague, for instance), and other things are yet to happen.

I really like the idea that in the end everything is going to turn out alright and be just wonderful.

I don't like the idea that we have to go through such intense trials and tribulations until we get there.

Helen Young said
"If Jesus’ original proclamation concerned the imminent arrival of God’s kingdom, how and when did that proclamation become the later Christian chronological scheme of an intermediate millennium followed by a final eternal kingdom?"
I don't know everything about this. I see the kingdom as continually inbreaking since Jesus's day. Am I right about this? Idk. It's what I see in what one could call the moral development of humanity. Is it always working, or is it all in one straight line? Perhaps not, but perhaps we are getting somewhere.
  

Hi Helen! I think I figured out a possible explanation for the 12k by 12 k stadia New Jerusalem thing?

It looks like Revelation may fit my syncretic literature hypothesis, like the Gospel of John seems to. ie syncretizing a pre-Islamic Arabian literary format:

Pre-Islamic Arabian poetry has 3 parts:

• Part 1 — elegy for someone no longer there.

Jesus (the 7 scrolls seem to be a will and testament thing for Jesus Malka if Malichus II, with the little lamb being the child, Rabbel.

Part 2  — gritty ordeal/trial/journey stuffs.

Jewish-Roman war and refugees, Nero issues, etc.

Part 3 hyperbolic boast.

New Jerusalem is 12,000 stadia high, new reign is 1,000 years 

Epiphanius also was dismissive of Nabataean-area Gnostics for saying spirit bodies were like, miles high.

And apparently Revelation is already known to have rhyming sections when translated from koine Greek to Arabic.