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        <title>The Bart Ehrman Blog - Forum: The New Testament Gospels</title>
        <link>https://ehrmanblog.org/forum/the-new-testament-gospels/</link>
        <description><![CDATA[The History &#038; Literature of Early Christianity]]></description>
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		                <item>
                    <title>Steefen on Checking Original Meanings: Born Again? Anothen or Ano Then? (Koine Greek or Classical Greek?) -- Significant to Grasp from the NT Gospels (Not Pauline?)</title>
                    <link>https://ehrmanblog.org/forum/the-new-testament-gospels/checking-original-meanings-born-again-anothen-or-ano-then-koine-greek-or-classical-greek-significant-to-grasp-from-the-nt-gospels-not-pauline/#p48899</link>
                    <category>The New Testament Gospels</category>
                    <guid isPermaLink="true">https://ehrmanblog.org/forum/the-new-testament-gospels/checking-original-meanings-born-again-anothen-or-ano-then-koine-greek-or-classical-greek-significant-to-grasp-from-the-nt-gospels-not-pauline/#p48899</guid>
					                        <description><![CDATA[<p>Matthew 3 and 11</p>
<p>John the Baptist:</p>
<p>“I baptize you with water for repentance. But after me comes one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.</p>
<p>Steefen:<br />
Pentecost</p>
<p>= = = =</p>
<p>Paul says:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>
“All of us who have been <strong>baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death</strong>. We were therefore buried with him by baptism into death, in order that, <strong>just as Christ was raised from the dead … we too might walk in newness of life</strong>.”</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Steefen:<br />
Pentecost was after Jesus' death and after he was raised from the dead--and after his ascension.</p>
<p>How about being baptized into his life, how about being baptized into the first half of his ministry?</p>
]]></description>
					                    <pubDate>Sat, 22 Aug 2026 09:29:49 -0400</pubDate>
                </item>
				                <item>
                    <title>Steefen on Checking Original Meanings: Born Again? Anothen or Ano Then? (Koine Greek or Classical Greek?) -- Significant to Grasp from the NT Gospels (Not Pauline?)</title>
                    <link>https://ehrmanblog.org/forum/the-new-testament-gospels/checking-original-meanings-born-again-anothen-or-ano-then-koine-greek-or-classical-greek-significant-to-grasp-from-the-nt-gospels-not-pauline/#p48883</link>
                    <category>The New Testament Gospels</category>
                    <guid isPermaLink="true">https://ehrmanblog.org/forum/the-new-testament-gospels/checking-original-meanings-born-again-anothen-or-ano-then-koine-greek-or-classical-greek-significant-to-grasp-from-the-nt-gospels-not-pauline/#p48883</guid>
					                        <description><![CDATA[<div class="n6owBd awi2gc" style="font-family: Google Sans, Arial, sans-serif;font-size: 16px;font-weight: 400;margin: 0px 0px 16px;text-decoration: none;border-bottom: 0px #0a0a0a"><span class="iNqyIf" style="font-family: Google Sans, Arial, sans-serif;font-size: 16px;font-weight: 400;margin: 0px;text-decoration: none;border-bottom: 0px #0a0a0a"><u class="wfWfIf fxyaSe"><span style="font-family: Google Sans, Arial, sans-serif;font-size: 16px;font-weight: 400;margin: 0px;text-decoration: none;border-bottom: 0px #0a0a0a"><span class="jAOkJc" style="font-family: Google Sans, Arial, sans-serif;font-size: 16px;font-weight: 400;margin: 0px;text-decoration: none;border-bottom: 0px #0a0a0a">John the Baptist<!--TgQPHd&#124;&#124;&#124;[]--><!--TgQPHd&#124;&#124;&#124;[false,&#034;&#034;,false,&#034;\u0026RnNVcf_b:aPo2Hd&#034;]--></span><!--TgQPHd&#124;&#124;&#124;[[[&#034;/m/043mx&#034;,&#034;John the Baptist&#034;,0,&#034;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&#034;,&#034;PEOPLE&#034;],&#034;&#034;,0,[null,null,null,1,null,null,null,null,null,null,null,null,[291933,null,1,1],null,null,[{&#034;205&#034;:[null,&#034;/m/043mx&#034;],&#034;1219&#034;:[null,null,&#034;PEOPLE&#034;,null,null,&#034;/m/043mx&#034;],&#034;3524&#034;:[69]}]],null,0,null,&#034;&#034;,0]]--><!--TgQPHd&#124;&#124;&#124;[]--></span><!--TgQPHd&#124;&#124;&#124;[]--></u> baptized people <!--TgQPHd&#124;&#124;&#124;[]--></span><!--qkimaf RnNVcf_e/HugV6--><!--cqw1tb RnNVcf_e/HugV6--><span class="iNqyIf" style="font-family: Google Sans, Arial, sans-serif;font-size: 16px;font-weight: 500;margin: 0px;text-decoration: none;border-bottom: 0px #001d35">to call them to turn away from sin<!--TgQPHd&#124;&#124;&#124;[]--></span> and to prepare their hearts for the arrival of Jesus Christ<!--TgQPHd&#124;&#124;&#124;[[]]-->. His <span class="" style="font-family: Google Sans, Arial, sans-serif;font-size: 16px;font-weight: 400;margin: 0px;text-decoration: none;border-bottom: 0px #0a0a0a"><b>** you do not have permission to see this link **</b>]<!--TgQPHd&#124;&#124;&#124;[]--></span></div>
<div class="yhAwj" style="font-family: Google Sans, Arial, sans-serif;font-size: 16px;font-weight: 400;margin: 0px;text-decoration: none;border-bottom: 0px #0a0a0a"><!--TgQPHd&#124;&#124;&#124;[]--></div>
<div class="otQkpb" style="font-family: Google Sans, Arial, sans-serif;font-size: 20px;font-weight: 600;margin: 24px 0px 12px;text-decoration: none;border-bottom: 0px #001d35">Main Reasons for John's Baptism<!--TgQPHdRnNVcf_1/OZSNke&#124;&#124;&#124;[]--></div>
<div class="" style="font-family: Google Sans, Arial, sans-serif;font-size: 16px;font-weight: 400;margin: 0px;text-decoration: none;border-bottom: 0px #0a0a0a">
<ul>
<li class="Z1qcYe" style="font-family: Google Sans, Arial, sans-serif;font-size: 16px;font-weight: 400;margin: 0px 0px 12px;text-decoration: none;border-bottom: 0px #0a0a0a"><span class="iNqyIf" style="font-family: Google Sans, Arial, sans-serif;font-size: 16px;font-weight: 400;margin: 0px;text-decoration: none;border-bottom: 0px #0a0a0a"><strong class="rQesXe MPyX">A Call to Repentance:<!--TgQPHd&#124;&#124;&#124;[]--></strong> He told people to confess their wrongdoings and change how they lived.<!--TgQPHd&#124;&#124;&#124;[]--></span><!--TgQPHd&#124;&#124;&#124;[]--></li>
</ul>
</div>
<div class="" style="font-family: Google Sans, Arial, sans-serif;font-size: 16px;font-weight: 400;margin: 0px;text-decoration: none;border-bottom: 0px #0a0a0a">
<ul>
<li class="Z1qcYe" style="font-family: Google Sans, Arial, sans-serif;font-size: 16px;font-weight: 400;margin: 0px 0px 12px;text-decoration: none;border-bottom: 0px #0a0a0a"><span class="iNqyIf" style="font-family: Google Sans, Arial, sans-serif;font-size: 16px;font-weight: 400;margin: 0px;text-decoration: none;border-bottom: 0px #0a0a0a"><strong class="rQesXe MPyX">Preparing for the Messiah:<!--TgQPHd&#124;&#124;&#124;[]--></strong> He acted as the messenger prophesied to get the nation ready for Jesus.<!--TgQPHd&#124;&#124;&#124;[]--></span><!--TgQPHd&#124;&#124;&#124;[]--></li>
</ul>
</div>
<div class="" style="font-family: Google Sans, Arial, sans-serif;font-size: 16px;font-weight: 400;margin: 0px;text-decoration: none;border-bottom: 0px #0a0a0a">
<ul>
<li class="Z1qcYe" style="font-family: Google Sans, Arial, sans-serif;font-size: 16px;font-weight: 400;margin: 0px 0px 12px;text-decoration: none;border-bottom: 0px #0a0a0a"><span class="iNqyIf" style="font-family: Google Sans, Arial, sans-serif;font-size: 16px;font-weight: 400;margin: 0px;text-decoration: none;border-bottom: 0px #0a0a0a"><strong class="rQesXe MPyX">A New Start:<!--TgQPHd&#124;&#124;&#124;[]--></strong> Submerging people in the water symbolized washing away an old, harmful life to begin a fresh path devoted to God.<!--TgQPHd&#124;&#124;&#124;[]--></span><!--TgQPHd&#124;&#124;&#124;[]--></li>
</ul>
</div>
<div class="" style="font-family: Google Sans, Arial, sans-serif;font-size: 16px;font-weight: 400;margin: 0px;text-decoration: none;border-bottom: 0px #0a0a0a">
<ul>
<li class="Z1qcYe" style="font-family: Google Sans, Arial, sans-serif;font-size: 16px;font-weight: 400;margin: 0px 0px 12px;text-decoration: none;border-bottom: 0px #0a0a0a"><span class="iNqyIf" style="font-family: Google Sans, Arial, sans-serif;font-size: 16px;font-weight: 400;margin: 0px;text-decoration: none;border-bottom: 0px #0a0a0a"><strong class="rQesXe MPyX">Pointing to Jesus:<!--TgQPHd&#124;&#124;&#124;[]--></strong><span style="font-family: Google Sans, Arial, sans-serif;font-size: 16px;font-weight: 400;margin: 0px;text-decoration: none;border-bottom: 0px #0a0a0a"> He taught that his water baptism was temporary and that Jesus would follow with a deeper baptism of the Holy Spirit.</span><!--TgQPHd&#124;&#124;&#124;[]--></span><span style="font-family: Google Sans, Arial, sans-serif;font-size: 16px;font-weight: 400;margin: 0px;text-decoration: none;border-bottom: 0px #0a0a0a"> [<b>** you do not have permission to see this link **</b>]</span></li>
</ul>
<p>= = = =</p>
<p>John the Baptist had no idea Jesus was going to be crucified by Rome because the Temple establishment rejected Jesus, the cloud-rider like Baal. </p>
<p>So, Paul made that up.</p>
</div>
]]></description>
					                    <pubDate>Fri, 21 Aug 2026 15:48:37 -0400</pubDate>
                </item>
				                <item>
                    <title>Steefen on Checking Original Meanings: Born Again? Anothen or Ano Then? (Koine Greek or Classical Greek?) -- Significant to Grasp from the NT Gospels (Not Pauline?)</title>
                    <link>https://ehrmanblog.org/forum/the-new-testament-gospels/checking-original-meanings-born-again-anothen-or-ano-then-koine-greek-or-classical-greek-significant-to-grasp-from-the-nt-gospels-not-pauline/#p48882</link>
                    <category>The New Testament Gospels</category>
                    <guid isPermaLink="true">https://ehrmanblog.org/forum/the-new-testament-gospels/checking-original-meanings-born-again-anothen-or-ano-then-koine-greek-or-classical-greek-significant-to-grasp-from-the-nt-gospels-not-pauline/#p48882</guid>
					                        <description><![CDATA[<p>Paul says:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>
“All of us who have been <strong>baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death</strong>. We were therefore buried with him by baptism into death, in order that, <strong>just as Christ was raised from the dead … we too might walk in newness of life</strong>.”</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Steefen:</p>
<p>I don't think the baptisms done by John the Baptist were about being buried with Jesus and rising from the dead with Jesus.</p>
]]></description>
					                    <pubDate>Fri, 21 Aug 2026 15:42:05 -0400</pubDate>
                </item>
				                <item>
                    <title>Steefen on Checking Original Meanings: Born Again? Anothen or Ano Then? (Koine Greek or Classical Greek?) -- Significant to Grasp from the NT Gospels (Not Pauline?)</title>
                    <link>https://ehrmanblog.org/forum/the-new-testament-gospels/checking-original-meanings-born-again-anothen-or-ano-then-koine-greek-or-classical-greek-significant-to-grasp-from-the-nt-gospels-not-pauline/#p48880</link>
                    <category>The New Testament Gospels</category>
                    <guid isPermaLink="true">https://ehrmanblog.org/forum/the-new-testament-gospels/checking-original-meanings-born-again-anothen-or-ano-then-koine-greek-or-classical-greek-significant-to-grasp-from-the-nt-gospels-not-pauline/#p48880</guid>
					                        <description><![CDATA[<p>When Jesus talks to Nicodemus at John 3:3-7 about being born from above, St. Paul tells Gentiles to do the same.</p>
<p class="PDq2pG_selectionAnchorContainer">Paul expresses essentially the same transformation in several different ways, and importantly, he applies it to <strong>Gentiles as well as Jews</strong>.</p>
<p>The strongest parallels are these:</p>
<h3>1. Paul calls Gentile believers a <strong>“new creation”</strong></h3>
<p>Paul says:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>
“Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a <strong>new creation</strong>; the old has passed away; behold, the new has come.”<br />
— 2 Corinthians 5:17</p>
</blockquote>
<p>And even more pointedly in Galatians:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>
“For neither circumcision counts for anything, nor uncircumcision, but a <strong>new creation</strong>.”<br />
— Galatians 6:15</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Galatians is particularly important because Paul is addressing the question of <strong>Gentiles entering the Christ movement</strong> without becoming Jews through circumcision.</p>
<p>So where Jesus says:</p>
<p><strong>“You must be born from above”</strong></p>
<p>Paul says:</p>
<p><strong>“If anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation.”</strong></p>
<p>Those are very close conceptual equivalents.</p>
<h3>2. Paul explicitly describes a transformation involving the Spirit</h3>
<p>Paul tells the Romans:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>
“But you are not in the flesh; you are in the Spirit, if in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you.”</p>
</blockquote>
<p>— Romans 8:9</p>
<p>And in Titus 3:5 he describes salvation as:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>
“the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit.”</p>
</blockquote>
<p>That word <strong>“regeneration”</strong> (<em>palingenesia</em>) is particularly interesting because it denotes <strong>new birth/new beginning</strong>. Paul therefore has a vocabulary for the same general idea even though he doesn't reproduce John's <em>anōthen</em> terminology.</p>
<h3>3. Paul connects this transformation with baptism</h3>
<p>This gets especially interesting when you put <strong>John 3:5</strong> beside Paul's Romans 6.</p>
<p>Jesus says:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>
“Unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.”</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Paul says:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>
“All of us who have been <strong>baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death</strong>. We were therefore buried with him by baptism into death, in order that, <strong>just as Christ was raised from the dead ... we too might walk in newness of life</strong>.”</p>
</blockquote>
<p>— Romans 6:3–4</p>
<p>And in Galatians 3:27:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>
“For as many of you as were <strong>baptized into Christ have put on Christ</strong>.”</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Thus Paul's Gentile converts undergo a transition from an <strong>old existence into a new existence in Christ</strong>, associated with baptism and the Spirit.</p>
<h3>4. Paul actually uses “new birth” language in a striking place</h3>
<p>There is an especially important passage in <strong>Galatians 4:19</strong>. Paul says:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>
“My little children, for whom I am again in the anguish of <strong>childbirth</strong> until Christ is formed in you!”</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Paul is speaking to the Galatians, including Gentile Christians, and describes Christ being <strong>formed in them</strong>.</p>
<p>That is not merely an ethical improvement. It is imagery of <strong>formation/new existence</strong>.</p>
<h3>The important distinction</h3>
<p>There is nevertheless a significant difference between John and Paul.</p>
<p><strong>John 3 explicitly says:</strong></p>
<blockquote>
<p>
You <strong>must be born from above</strong> to see/enter the kingdom of God.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Paul doesn't write to Gentiles, “You must be born from above.” Instead, his language is:</p>
<ul>
<li><strong>“new creation”</strong> — 2 Cor. 5:17; Gal. 6:15</li>
<li><strong>“renewal of the Holy Spirit”</strong> — Titus 3:5</li>
<li><strong>“newness of life”</strong> — Rom. 6:4</li>
<li><strong>“renewed in the spirit of your minds”</strong> — Eph. 4:23</li>
<li><strong>“put on the new self”</strong> — Eph. 4:24</li>
<li><strong>“Christ formed in you”</strong> — Gal. 4:19</li>
</ul>
<p>So, <strong>yes, Paul does teach Gentiles that they must undergo the kind of transformation Jesus describes to Nicodemus—but he normally expresses it through his own “new creation / new life / Spirit / Christ in you” terminology rather than John's “born from above.”</strong></p>
<p>And there is an interesting historical-literary question underneath your question: <strong>whether Paul's “new creation” language represents an independent formulation of the same concept, or whether Paul and John are drawing on a common earlier Jewish/Christian tradition about eschatological rebirth.</strong> That distinction becomes important if you're comparing the chronology or development of Paul's theology with the Gospel of John.</p>
<p>= = =</p>
<p>A-HA. The Jesus-Nicodemus exchange only appears in the Gospel of John.</p>
<h4>So, with this, Paul comes after Gospel of John or before the Gospel of John?</h4>
]]></description>
					                    <pubDate>Fri, 21 Aug 2026 15:28:44 -0400</pubDate>
                </item>
				                <item>
                    <title>Steefen on Checking Original Meanings: Born Again? Anothen or Ano Then? (Koine Greek or Classical Greek?) -- Significant to Grasp from the NT Gospels (Not Pauline?)</title>
                    <link>https://ehrmanblog.org/forum/the-new-testament-gospels/checking-original-meanings-born-again-anothen-or-ano-then-koine-greek-or-classical-greek-significant-to-grasp-from-the-nt-gospels-not-pauline/#p48870</link>
                    <category>The New Testament Gospels</category>
                    <guid isPermaLink="true">https://ehrmanblog.org/forum/the-new-testament-gospels/checking-original-meanings-born-again-anothen-or-ano-then-koine-greek-or-classical-greek-significant-to-grasp-from-the-nt-gospels-not-pauline/#p48870</guid>
					                        <description><![CDATA[<p>Steve Campbell:<br />
Richard Gere blushing does not produce a dark-skinned Solomon.</p>
<p>Solomon had an Egyptian wife.</p>
<p>David and Solomon were not White like Netanyahu.<br />
If they were not Black, they could have been brown-skinned like Palestinians or Ancient Egyptians.</p>
<p>= = = =</p>
<p>The King James Bible was not a neutral academic exercise. It was a state project.</p>
<p>p/u at 20:34</p>
]]></description>
					                    <pubDate>Fri, 21 Aug 2026 09:14:20 -0400</pubDate>
                </item>
				                <item>
                    <title>Steefen on Checking Original Meanings: Born Again? Anothen or Ano Then? (Koine Greek or Classical Greek?) -- Significant to Grasp from the NT Gospels (Not Pauline?)</title>
                    <link>https://ehrmanblog.org/forum/the-new-testament-gospels/checking-original-meanings-born-again-anothen-or-ano-then-koine-greek-or-classical-greek-significant-to-grasp-from-the-nt-gospels-not-pauline/#p48869</link>
                    <category>The New Testament Gospels</category>
                    <guid isPermaLink="true">https://ehrmanblog.org/forum/the-new-testament-gospels/checking-original-meanings-born-again-anothen-or-ano-then-koine-greek-or-classical-greek-significant-to-grasp-from-the-nt-gospels-not-pauline/#p48869</guid>
					                        <description><![CDATA[<p>Michelangelo and Richard Gere were wrong: David was Ba-lack. Not ruddy.</p>
<p>Erik the Red didn't have Ba-lack children.</p>
]]></description>
					                    <pubDate>Fri, 21 Aug 2026 09:09:48 -0400</pubDate>
                </item>
				                <item>
                    <title>Steefen on Checking Original Meanings: Born Again? Anothen or Ano Then? (Koine Greek or Classical Greek?) -- Significant to Grasp from the NT Gospels (Not Pauline?)</title>
                    <link>https://ehrmanblog.org/forum/the-new-testament-gospels/checking-original-meanings-born-again-anothen-or-ano-then-koine-greek-or-classical-greek-significant-to-grasp-from-the-nt-gospels-not-pauline/#p48868</link>
                    <category>The New Testament Gospels</category>
                    <guid isPermaLink="true">https://ehrmanblog.org/forum/the-new-testament-gospels/checking-original-meanings-born-again-anothen-or-ano-then-koine-greek-or-classical-greek-significant-to-grasp-from-the-nt-gospels-not-pauline/#p48868</guid>
					                        <description><![CDATA[<p>Adam originates from the earth.<br />
So, David was earthly in color.</p>
<p>Genesis 25:</p>
<p>Essau was red.<br />
David was well-colored.</p>
<p>Brown came from Germany. Luther wrote brownish.</p>
<p>Judas had red-hair for Luther and David could not have the same red color as Judas.</p>
<p>Earth-colored, sun-lived Middle Eastern Shepherd, David.</p>
<h2>Look at the map ! ! !</h2>
<p> </p>
<p>Cushites were dark- to brown-skinned.</p>
<p>Song of Songs Chapter 1, v 5</p>
<p>[David's Son is dark-skinned.] Dark am I yet lovely, daughters of Jerusalem, dark like the tents of Kedar, like the tent curtains of Solomon.</p>
<p><span class="versiontext">NET Bible</span><br />
I am dark but lovely, O maidens of Jerusalem, dark like the tents of Qedar, lovely like the tent curtains of Salmah.</p>
<p><span class="versiontext">New Revised Standard Version</span><br />
I am black and beautiful, O daughters of Jerusalem, like the tents of Kedar, like the curtains of Solomon.</p>
<p>= = =</p>
<p>Black BUT lovely or Black AND lovely/beautiful?</p>
<p>CUT TO THE CHASE. King David had a Black son.</p>
]]></description>
					                    <pubDate>Fri, 21 Aug 2026 09:01:51 -0400</pubDate>
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				                <item>
                    <title>Steefen on Checking Original Meanings: Born Again? Anothen or Ano Then? (Koine Greek or Classical Greek?) -- Significant to Grasp from the NT Gospels (Not Pauline?)</title>
                    <link>https://ehrmanblog.org/forum/the-new-testament-gospels/checking-original-meanings-born-again-anothen-or-ano-then-koine-greek-or-classical-greek-significant-to-grasp-from-the-nt-gospels-not-pauline/#p48867</link>
                    <category>The New Testament Gospels</category>
                    <guid isPermaLink="true">https://ehrmanblog.org/forum/the-new-testament-gospels/checking-original-meanings-born-again-anothen-or-ano-then-koine-greek-or-classical-greek-significant-to-grasp-from-the-nt-gospels-not-pauline/#p48867</guid>
					                        <description><![CDATA[<p class="PDq2pG_selectionAnchorContainer">The Great Bible reads:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>
“And he was <strong>browne</strong>, and of an excellent bewtye, &#038; well fauored in syght.”</p>
</blockquote>
<p> </p>
<h3 class="PDq2pG_selectionAnchorContainer">So where did “brown” come from?</h3>
<p>This is where the history of English vocabulary becomes important.</p>
<p>In <strong>Middle English and Early Modern English</strong>, <em>brown</em> had a considerably broader color range than our modern use of “brown.” It could refer to <strong>dark, dusky, sun-darkened, or somewhat reddish/dark coloration</strong>, rather than exclusively the modern brown color.</p>
<p>That makes “brown” a plausible <strong>sixteenth-century English rendering of a person's complexion or coloring</strong>, even though it isn't the most literal translation of <em>’admoni</em>.</p>
<p class="PDq2pG_selectionAnchorContainer">The <strong>Latin Vulgate is very clear</strong>. Jerome translates the Hebrew <em>’admoni</em> with:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>
<strong>erat autem rufus</strong><br />
“he was <strong>rufus</strong>”</p>
</blockquote>
<p>So the Vulgate does <strong>not</strong> say <em>brown</em>. It says <strong>rufus</strong>.</p>
<h3><span>What does <em>rufus</em> mean?</span></h3>
<p>Latin <strong>rufus</strong> means <strong>red, reddish, ruddy, or reddish-haired</strong>. It is the normal Latin adjective for a reddish coloration and can describe <strong>red/auburn hair</strong> as well.</p>
<p>And the Vulgate uses the same word again in <strong>1 Samuel 17:42</strong>, when Goliath sees David:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>
<strong>Erat enim adolescens, rufus, et pulcher aspectu.</strong><br />
“For he was a young man, <strong>rufus</strong>, and beautiful in appearance.”</p>
</blockquote>
<p> </p>
<p>Chaka Khan's was a lead singer for Rufus and most of them were brown.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>This could explain why the <strong>Great Bible's “brown” and the KJV's later “ruddy”</strong> are not necessarily as far apart as they look to a modern reader.</p>
]]></description>
					                    <pubDate>Fri, 21 Aug 2026 08:46:39 -0400</pubDate>
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                    <title>Steefen on Checking Original Meanings: Born Again? Anothen or Ano Then? (Koine Greek or Classical Greek?) -- Significant to Grasp from the NT Gospels (Not Pauline?)</title>
                    <link>https://ehrmanblog.org/forum/the-new-testament-gospels/checking-original-meanings-born-again-anothen-or-ano-then-koine-greek-or-classical-greek-significant-to-grasp-from-the-nt-gospels-not-pauline/#p48866</link>
                    <category>The New Testament Gospels</category>
                    <guid isPermaLink="true">https://ehrmanblog.org/forum/the-new-testament-gospels/checking-original-meanings-born-again-anothen-or-ano-then-koine-greek-or-classical-greek-significant-to-grasp-from-the-nt-gospels-not-pauline/#p48866</guid>
					                        <description><![CDATA[<p>1 Samuel 16:12 the annointing</p>
<p>1535 Coverdale Bible David was "well colored"</p>
<p>1537 Matthew's Bible David was "brown"</p>
<p>1539 Great Bible David was "brown"</p>
<p>1560 Geneva Bible David was "ruddy"</p>
<p>1568 Bishops' Bible David was "ruddy"</p>
<p>1611 Kim James Bible David was "ruddy"</p>
<p> </p>
<p><strong>’admoni → “ruddy/reddish”</strong> = strongest<br />
<strong>“well-colored/glowing”</strong> = interpretive but reasonable<br />
<strong>“brown”</strong> = possible only as an interpretive description, not the direct meaning</p>
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<p class="PDq2pG_selectionAnchorContainer">the <strong>Septuagint is quite revealing here</strong>.</p>
<p>In <strong>1 Samuel 16:12</strong>, the Greek Septuagint reads:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>
<strong>πυρράκης</strong> (<em>pyrrhakēs</em>)</p>
</blockquote>
<p>The relevant phrase is essentially:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>
<strong>καὶ αὐτὸς πυρράκης, καὶ ὀφθαλμοῖς καλὸς καὶ ἀγαθὸς ὁράσει κυρίῳ</strong></p>
</blockquote>
<p>The Greek <strong>πυρράκης</strong> means <strong>“reddish,” “red-haired,” or “fiery-colored.”</strong></p>
<p>So the Septuagint does <strong>not</strong> translate <em>’admoni</em> as “brown.”</p>
<h3>But there is an important wrinkle</h3>
<p>The Greek adjective <strong>πυρράκης</strong> is related to <strong>πυρρός (<em>pyrrhos</em>)</strong>, “fiery/red.” It can be used for <strong>reddish coloration and particularly reddish hair</strong>.</p>
<p>That's significant because the Hebrew <strong>’admoni</strong> itself is somewhat ambiguous as to <em>what</em> was reddish. The Septuagint translators appear to have understood David as having a <strong>reddish/fiery physical appearance</strong>, and possibly <strong>reddish hair</strong>.</p>
<p>Then the Greek continues:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>
<strong>καὶ ὀφθαλμοῖς καλὸς</strong><br />
“beautiful in the eyes”</p>
</blockquote>
<p>and</p>
<blockquote>
<p>
<strong>ἀγαθὸς ὁράσει</strong><br />
“good/fine in appearance.”</p>
</blockquote>
<p>So the ancient Greek translator essentially preserves the sequence:</p>
<p><strong>reddish/fiery appearance → beautiful eyes → handsome/fine appearance.</strong></p>
<h3>And 1 Samuel 17:42 confirms it</h3>
<p>When Goliath sees David, the Septuagint again uses the same basic description:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>
<strong>καὶ εἶδεν τὸν Δαυιδ, καὶ εἶδεν ὅτι ἦν πυρράκης</strong></p>
</blockquote>
<p>“and he saw David, and saw that he was <strong>pyrrhakēs</strong>.”</p>
<p>So this isn't a one-time translation choice in 16:12; the Greek translator uses the same characterization when David is seen by Goliath.</p>
<p><strong>Therefore, if you're asking whether the ancient Jewish Greek translators understood David as “ruddy/reddish” rather than “brown,” the answer is clearly yes.</strong> And the Septuagint actually gives us a stronger basis for the traditional idea that David had a <strong>reddish or red-haired appearance</strong> than the Hebrew alone does.</p>
<p>One caution: <strong>πυρράκης does not necessarily mean “red-haired” exclusively</strong>, so I would not translate the Septuagint as definitively saying “David had red hair.” But <strong>“reddish/fiery-colored” is much closer to the ancient Greek than “brown.”</strong></p>
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]]></description>
					                    <pubDate>Fri, 21 Aug 2026 08:37:36 -0400</pubDate>
                </item>
				                <item>
                    <title>Steefen on Checking Original Meanings: Born Again? Anothen or Ano Then? (Koine Greek or Classical Greek?) -- Significant to Grasp from the NT Gospels (Not Pauline?)</title>
                    <link>https://ehrmanblog.org/forum/the-new-testament-gospels/checking-original-meanings-born-again-anothen-or-ano-then-koine-greek-or-classical-greek-significant-to-grasp-from-the-nt-gospels-not-pauline/#p48864</link>
                    <category>The New Testament Gospels</category>
                    <guid isPermaLink="true">https://ehrmanblog.org/forum/the-new-testament-gospels/checking-original-meanings-born-again-anothen-or-ano-then-koine-greek-or-classical-greek-significant-to-grasp-from-the-nt-gospels-not-pauline/#p48864</guid>
					                        <description><![CDATA[<p>Comment 3</p>
<div class="n6owBd awi2gc" style="font-family: Google Sans, Arial, sans-serif;font-size: 16px;font-weight: 400;margin: 0px 0px 16px;text-decoration: none;border-bottom: 0px #0a0a0a"><span style="font-family: Google Sans, Arial, sans-serif;font-size: 16px;font-weight: 400;margin: 0px;text-decoration: none;border-bottom: 0px #0a0a0a">n Koine Greek, the phrase "born again" comes from the word </span><em class="eujQNb">anothen<!--TgQPHd&#124;&#124;&#124;[]--></em> (ἄνωθεν), which famously means both "from above" and "again" or "anew". The specific, literal Greek verb for being "born again" or "born anew" is <!--qkimaf CIlWve_l/HugV6--><!--cqw1tb CIlWve_l/HugV6--><em class="eujQNb"><strong class="rQesXe MPyX">anagennao<!--TgQPHd&#124;&#124;&#124;[]--></strong><!--TgQPHd&#124;&#124;&#124;[]--></em> (ἀναγεννάω)<!--TgQPHd&#124;&#124;&#124;[[]]-->. [<b>** you do not have permission to see this link **</b>]<!--TgQPHd&#124;&#124;&#124;[]--></div>
<div class="n6owBd awi2gc" style="font-family: Google Sans, Arial, sans-serif;font-size: 16px;font-weight: 400;margin: 12px 0px 16px;text-decoration: none;border-bottom: 0px #0a0a0a">This term combines two Greek roots to form a powerful spiritual meaning:<!--TgQPHd&#124;&#124;&#124;[]--></div>
<div class="" style="font-family: Google Sans, Arial, sans-serif;font-size: 16px;font-weight: 400;margin: 0px;text-decoration: none;border-bottom: 0px #0a0a0a">
<ul>
<li class="Z1qcYe" style="font-family: Google Sans, Arial, sans-serif;font-size: 16px;font-weight: 400;margin: 0px 0px 12px;text-decoration: none;border-bottom: 0px #0a0a0a"><span class="iNqyIf" style="font-family: Google Sans, Arial, sans-serif;font-size: 16px;font-weight: 400;margin: 0px;text-decoration: none;border-bottom: 0px #0a0a0a"><strong class="rQesXe MPyX">Ana-<!--TgQPHd&#124;&#124;&#124;[]--></strong> (ἀνά): Meaning "again," "anew," or "from above".<!--TgQPHd&#124;&#124;&#124;[]--></span><!--TgQPHd&#124;&#124;&#124;[]--></li>
</ul>
</div>
<div class="" style="font-family: Google Sans, Arial, sans-serif;font-size: 16px;font-weight: 400;margin: 0px;text-decoration: none;border-bottom: 0px #0a0a0a">
<ul>
<li class="Z1qcYe" style="font-family: Google Sans, Arial, sans-serif;font-size: 16px;font-weight: 400;margin: 0px 0px 12px;text-decoration: none;border-bottom: 0px #0a0a0a"><span class="iNqyIf" style="font-family: Google Sans, Arial, sans-serif;font-size: 16px;font-weight: 400;margin: 0px;text-decoration: none;border-bottom: 0px #0a0a0a"><strong class="rQesXe MPyX">Gennao<!--TgQPHd&#124;&#124;&#124;[]--></strong> (γεννάω): Meaning "to beget" or "to give birth".<!--TgQPHd&#124;&#124;&#124;[]--></span> [<b>** you do not have permission to see this link **</b>]<!--TgQPHd&#124;&#124;&#124;[]--></li>
</ul>
</div>
<ul class="KsbFXc U6u95" style="font-family: Google Sans, Arial, sans-serif;font-size: 16px;font-weight: 400;margin: 12px 0px 16px;text-decoration: none;border-bottom: 0px #0a0a0a"><!--TgQPHd&#124;&#124;&#124;[]--></ul>
<div class="" style="font-family: Google Sans, Arial, sans-serif;font-size: 16px;font-weight: 400;margin: 0px;text-decoration: none;border-bottom: 0px #0a0a0a">
<div class="n6owBd awi2gc" style="font-family: Google Sans, Arial, sans-serif;font-size: 16px;font-weight: 400;margin: 12px 0px 16px;text-decoration: none;border-bottom: 0px #0a0a0a">The phrase is famously used in <span class="" style="font-family: Google Sans, Arial, sans-serif;font-size: 16px;font-weight: 400;margin: 0px;text-decoration: none;border-bottom: 0px #0a0a0a"><b>** you do not have permission to see this link **</b>]</span></div>
</div>
]]></description>
					                    <pubDate>Thu, 20 Aug 2026 19:08:14 -0400</pubDate>
                </item>
				                <item>
                    <title>Steefen on Checking Original Meanings: Born Again? Anothen or Ano Then? (Koine Greek or Classical Greek?) -- Significant to Grasp from the NT Gospels (Not Pauline?)</title>
                    <link>https://ehrmanblog.org/forum/the-new-testament-gospels/checking-original-meanings-born-again-anothen-or-ano-then-koine-greek-or-classical-greek-significant-to-grasp-from-the-nt-gospels-not-pauline/#p48863</link>
                    <category>The New Testament Gospels</category>
                    <guid isPermaLink="true">https://ehrmanblog.org/forum/the-new-testament-gospels/checking-original-meanings-born-again-anothen-or-ano-then-koine-greek-or-classical-greek-significant-to-grasp-from-the-nt-gospels-not-pauline/#p48863</guid>
					                        <description><![CDATA[<p>Oh My God.</p>
<p>In my book, King David borrowed biography from an Egyptian pharaoh.</p>
<p>Now see this documentary:</p>
<p>YouTube Channel: History Morsels<br />
Video: Coverdale Wrote It in 1535: King David Was Black - The KJV Buried the Verse</p>
<p>Up to 3:39, Kind David was brown-skinned.</p>
<p></p>
<p> </p>
<p>p/u at 5:05</p>
]]></description>
					                    <pubDate>Thu, 20 Aug 2026 19:03:15 -0400</pubDate>
                </item>
				                <item>
                    <title>Steefen on Checking Original Meanings: Born Again? Anothen or Ano Then? (Koine Greek or Classical Greek?) -- Significant to Grasp from the NT Gospels (Not Pauline?)</title>
                    <link>https://ehrmanblog.org/forum/the-new-testament-gospels/checking-original-meanings-born-again-anothen-or-ano-then-koine-greek-or-classical-greek-significant-to-grasp-from-the-nt-gospels-not-pauline/#p48862</link>
                    <category>The New Testament Gospels</category>
                    <guid isPermaLink="true">https://ehrmanblog.org/forum/the-new-testament-gospels/checking-original-meanings-born-again-anothen-or-ano-then-koine-greek-or-classical-greek-significant-to-grasp-from-the-nt-gospels-not-pauline/#p48862</guid>
					                        <description><![CDATA[<p>This wasn't a secret or a conspiracy because colonial linguists left a documented paper trail.</p>
<p>The goal was to make the text feel native to English speakers.</p>
]]></description>
					                    <pubDate>Thu, 20 Aug 2026 18:52:01 -0400</pubDate>
                </item>
				                <item>
                    <title>Steefen on Checking Original Meanings: Born Again? Anothen or Ano Then? (Koine Greek or Classical Greek?) -- Significant to Grasp from the NT Gospels (Not Pauline?)</title>
                    <link>https://ehrmanblog.org/forum/the-new-testament-gospels/checking-original-meanings-born-again-anothen-or-ano-then-koine-greek-or-classical-greek-significant-to-grasp-from-the-nt-gospels-not-pauline/#p48861</link>
                    <category>The New Testament Gospels</category>
                    <guid isPermaLink="true">https://ehrmanblog.org/forum/the-new-testament-gospels/checking-original-meanings-born-again-anothen-or-ano-then-koine-greek-or-classical-greek-significant-to-grasp-from-the-nt-gospels-not-pauline/#p48861</guid>
					                        <description><![CDATA[<p>What?</p>
<p>Amen isn't the Egyptian god, it is Aleph mem nun--truth faithfulness certainty.</p>
<p>= = = = =</p>
<h3>The English Colonial Project Expanded</h3>
<p>1520s The Tyndale Bible</p>
<p>1524 - Gian Giorgio Trissino - The letter J is being established</p>
<p>1560 - The Geneva Bible</p>
<p>1604 - The King James Bible is commissioned</p>
<p>1611 - The King James Bible is completed</p>
]]></description>
					                    <pubDate>Thu, 20 Aug 2026 18:37:34 -0400</pubDate>
                </item>
				                <item>
                    <title>Steefen on Checking Original Meanings: Born Again? Anothen or Ano Then? (Koine Greek or Classical Greek?) -- Significant to Grasp from the NT Gospels (Not Pauline?)</title>
                    <link>https://ehrmanblog.org/forum/the-new-testament-gospels/checking-original-meanings-born-again-anothen-or-ano-then-koine-greek-or-classical-greek-significant-to-grasp-from-the-nt-gospels-not-pauline/#p48860</link>
                    <category>The New Testament Gospels</category>
                    <guid isPermaLink="true">https://ehrmanblog.org/forum/the-new-testament-gospels/checking-original-meanings-born-again-anothen-or-ano-then-koine-greek-or-classical-greek-significant-to-grasp-from-the-nt-gospels-not-pauline/#p48860</guid>
					                        <description><![CDATA[<p>This video provide context for the second video.</p>
<p></p>
<p> </p>
<h1>The Second Video</h1>
<p></p>
]]></description>
					                    <pubDate>Thu, 20 Aug 2026 18:31:41 -0400</pubDate>
                </item>
				                <item>
                    <title>Steefen on Checking Original Meanings: Born Again? Anothen or Ano Then? (Koine Greek or Classical Greek?) -- Significant to Grasp from the NT Gospels (Not Pauline?)</title>
                    <link>https://ehrmanblog.org/forum/the-new-testament-gospels/checking-original-meanings-born-again-anothen-or-ano-then-koine-greek-or-classical-greek-significant-to-grasp-from-the-nt-gospels-not-pauline/#p48856</link>
                    <category>The New Testament Gospels</category>
                    <guid isPermaLink="true">https://ehrmanblog.org/forum/the-new-testament-gospels/checking-original-meanings-born-again-anothen-or-ano-then-koine-greek-or-classical-greek-significant-to-grasp-from-the-nt-gospels-not-pauline/#p48856</guid>
					                        <description><![CDATA[<p>Babies need to be born again from above--Christening?<br />
How about being born again when a person leaves childhood and becomes an adult?</p>
]]></description>
					                    <pubDate>Thu, 20 Aug 2026 10:46:58 -0400</pubDate>
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