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Loading...One of the problems with blogs on the New Testament, and in fact in understanding the New Testament at all, is that it is very difficult to explain what’s happening in the New Testament without assuming a lot of knowledge about the Old Testament, but even devoted students of the New Testament don’t know much at all about the Old Testament. So where do you begin?
I wanted to have a couple of posts on the differences between the understandings about the very basic question of “salvation” in Jesus and Paul; then I realized to explain either one I’d have to go over the basic ideas of Jewish apocalypticism; then it occurred to me that it would be useful to address the historical roots and development of apocalypticism; then I realized I couldn’t really do that without talking about the classical prophets of the Old Testament (Isaiah, Jeremiah, etc.). But then it occurred to me that to do that I’d have to explain what “prophecy” even was in the OT, before the classical prophets.
I had a friend who went down a rabbit hole like this in his dissertation (it was on sexual ethics in Paul, as it turns out), and he almost never came out!
I’ve decided I’ve got all the time in the world. And it’s all interesting. And little known. And highly important. So why not start more or less at the beginning?
OK, the beginning is Genesis 1:1. So I ain’t goin’ that far back. But I am going to start with what prophecy is in the Bible because most people really and truly don’t know, even, often, when they assume they do because it’s obvious: prophets predict the future, right?
Let’s look into that.
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Mr. Ehrman, you should have your friend write something here about Paul’s sexual ethics, because it is a hugely important issue. I myself wanted to ask you about it in the next Q&A. In particular, his understanding of “πορνεία” and “σάρκα” (you’ve answered to me already about “σάρκα” in a comment, but I think it could very well deserve a whole post of its own) and sexual relations in general, homosexuality etc.
Ah, PORNEIA is a very intersting term. There’s been a fairly recent article on it in one of the major journals that shows that “sexual immorality” did not mean just prostitutions and “homosexual activity,” but ANY kinds of sexual “aberrations” — meaning just about anything that did not involve heterossexual intercourse in the missionary positoin. Most people want to use the term to condemn what people they don’t appreciate do, without realizing that it also would apply to *them*.
Hi Bart.
Sort of related to this chat about sexual immorality is the word arsenokoites or arsenokoitai. In the two posts I link below (from 2019), both you and Jeff Siker are talking about 1 Corinthians 6:9-10. You use the former word, and Jeff Siker uses the latter. Are they both the same word ? You translate arsenokoites as “man marriage bed”, whilst Jeff translates arsenokoitai as “male bedders.” If the two Greek words are in fact the same, I find the two English translations rather different.
As always, thank you.
https://ehrmanblog.org/does-the-new-testament-condemn-homosexuals/
https://ehrmanblog.org/homosexuality-and-the-new-testament-guest-post-by-jeff-siker/
Yes, -es is singular and -ai is plural.
Thank you Bart. I was also curious to know how you would account for Jeff’s translation as “male bedders” and your translation as “man marriage bed ?” “Male bedders” and “man marriage bed” could be taken to mean two different things i.e with your translation, it could be that men together in the marriage bed of one of them is not on, but in the desert, or behind the barn, or in a “neutral” bed, two men together would be ok. Your thoughts ?
Thanks.
I’m not sure male-bedders helps much, if we want to know what is meant. Either does man marriage bed. But these are not actually *translations*: they are expressions of what the word means etymologically. You’d still have to translate it into an English word. Both Jeff and I agree that it does not mean “homosexual” in the modern sense.
I recently read “Can a Man Commit πορνεία with his Wife?” from David Wheeler-Reed, Jennifer W. Knust and Dale B. Martin, published in JBL (Summer 2018), and it was fascinating as well as pretty enlightning. I think I found that through one of your posts on the matter. It would surely be also interesting to hear the thoughts of someone who did his thesis on the subject of Paul’s sexual ethics though! Just a suggestion!
Yup, that was the article I was referring to!
Fascinating!!!!! Thanks!!
So Moses is seen as a prophet who speaks against the Pharoah?
Seems to me prophets were charismatic, shamanic people? Something like oracles or diviners?
Do you know of any evidence for psychedelic substance use in ancient Canaan? The closest thing I know of is the cannabis found at Arad. But that would have been for priests I assume.
No, I think there’s not much evidence that people were using much that these days could get you hauled into court….
All these dreams and visions–it seems obvious to me that they were entering altered states of consciousness. I can think of other hypothetical ways of inducing such trance states: hypnosis, sensory deprivation, meditation, fasting, isolation, etc. Surely these were more than mere poetic symbolism?
Postxian
In my experience and understanding
Some / many along the path experience dreams, visions, soul senses… without external leverage like drugs, fasting, etc
My favorite was always this.. Saul looking for donkeys..and Samuel giving him advice. Samuel 1:9 starting around 3.
6 “But the servant replied, “Look, in this town there is a man of God; he is highly respected, and everything he says comes true. Let’s go there now. Perhaps he will tell us what way to take.”
9 (Formerly in Israel, if someone went to inquire of God, they would say, “Come, let us go to the seer,” because the prophet of today used to be called a seer.)”
…
19 “I am the seer,” Samuel replied. “Go up ahead of me to the high place, for today you are to eat with me, and in the morning I will send you on your way and will tell you all that is in your heart. 20 As for the donkeys you lost three days ago, do not worry about them; they have been found. ”
>>
It seems to me that finding donkeys and telling what is in people’s hearts was probably the basis for people trusting Samuel as a holy person and seer. People would chat about successes at predicting smaller things and then prophets would build their credibility.
That reminds me of something I always wondered about. In the bible sometimes there are expressions like “behaving like a prophet” that most of the time don’t sound like you would think any prophet a sane person.
Like in 1 Samuel 19:20-24 or Jeremiah 29:26
In the latter it even likens a madman to a prophet.
It sounds similar in some other “authentic” variants of prophets like in Acts 2:4 which sounds very strange in our modern eyes/ears.
How does any of this fit into a honest discussion about right or wrong or even real prophets? I find it hard imagining in believing someone to be a “true” prophet that behaves like a madman or even differentiating between both.
I suppose the idea is that a prophet is inspired by the spirit of God and goes into some kind of transce, and so seems not to be in his own mind.
Do you think John or Jesus and their respective communities experienced such trance states? We have imagery that would suggest so–heavens opening and doves descending, transfiguration, etc.–perhaps brought about by fasting and/or exposure. Any evidence of ecstatic worship or dance in that part of the ancient world? Could post-resurrection experiences be a continuation of these kinds of trances? Perhaps we are too literate in our modern mindsets to imagine what the experience of God was like in the primarily oral ancient world?
My view is that when we have accounts of Jesus, say, seing the heavens open up and doves descending and hearing voices etc. — that these are not necessarily accounts of what Jesus actually experienced; they are later narratives told by other authors, their own descriptions of Jesus’ experiences. What he actually experienced is anyone’s guess. And whether he went into a trance on occasoin: I’d say there’s no way to know….
TheMaru.. people still prophesy today in ways that seem strange to many of us. If you want to get an idea, just look for “how to prophesy” on Amazon, or “prophetic gift.” One example is The Making of a Prophet by Jennifer LeClaire.. The Making of a Prophet: Practical Advice for Developing Your Prophetic Voice (2014).
I also ran across these book reviews that sound interesting https://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/abs/10.1086/488793
In Arabic, another Semitic language, the word Nabi is understood to come from the root n-b-a which has several meanings, but the important one being “bringer of important news (Naba).” The kind of news that you wouldn’t generally know. So in that sense, a Nabi is one who brings news from God. That is, knowledge which no one could know about otherwise. I imagine the Hebrew word also carries similar meanings since in both languages the word is coming from the same root.
Bart, how do you respond the Christian claim that Israel’s behavior (turning to idols and not living up to the covenant) shows us that a New Covenant was needed and that the prophets condemned Israel over and over for falling away.
I’d say it’s rather anti-Jewish. (Jeremiah talked about the new covenant too, of course, which is where Christians get it; but Christians seem to claim that they do keep the covenant. Well, except they tend to be no more holy than Jews)
I’m currently reading the Book of Joshua!
It’s great!
Professor Ehrman, may I please hijack this blog for a brief, hopefully, straightforward question. I am reading a book on James by Robert Eisenman. Should I consider his work authoritative or speculative? Thank you for listening, Professor.
He’s an impressive scholar, but I don’t think I know any other scholar who agrees with him on James. Everyone sees the very big problems. If you want to know about the Dead Sea Scrolls, I’d suggest reading the works of James Vanderkam instead. If you do you’ll see the problems.
How is the “Ark of the Covenant” (which was thought to have awesome, divine power connected to it) not equivalent to an idol bestowed with supernatural powers?
I guess because it was not supposed to be worshiped.
Hi,
I have never sent a question or observation to you before. My name is Lyle. In reading the Old Testament, I noted some interesting comments that seem to need an explanation. Before the flood, it is noted that “the sons of God” were attracted to the “women of men.” Who are these sons of God?
Kind regards,
Ah, good question. They are angelic beings; their offspring were giants who were roaming the earth — and in one strand of the flood story, that’s why God destroyed the earth with the flood, to get rid of these giants and those they influenced. You can see an apocrypal exposition of this strange passage in the non-canonical book of 1 Enoch.
Prophets are maybe my favorite Biblical topic. They’re shown with such majesty in art and film, but it would have been such a contentious, lonely, and extreme position to find yourself in, especially if the message was “Israel is wrong and going to pay.” Jeremiah makes my heart particularly sad. I have profound respect for the prophets of ancient Israel—whatever one’s faith or beliefs, the way some of them lived is awe inspiring.
Dr. Ehrman I was really amazed and shook (in a good way), by your scholarly critique of some of the history of Christianity. However, I did notice your prime focus on the difference between how Islam and Christianity see Jesus (pbuh) is centered on around his prophethood. That is wrong. The prime difference is how they VIEW THE MESSIAH.
I’m sure you know the Islamic view of the messiah is closer to the Judaic view. I believe if you would focus on that difference, it would greatly elevate your analysis.
In closing, want to say thank you, thank you, thank you, for elevating the discussion of religious education.
I’d say that’s one of the most important differences, yes indeed! But I don’t think we can limit it to just one MAIN one. THere are tons of them, I should think….
Genises, Chapter 6
Thank you for that information. I found a copy of the Book of Enoch online. According to its’ contents, there is a much more detailed description of the reasons for destroying the creation then there is in the Genesis version, although a bit more bazaar. I’m not sure if the consequence of the “grievous crime” described in Enoch between these libidinous “sons of heaven” and the “elegant and beautiful” daughters of men was due to lack of control of sexual desire or crossbreeding. I anticipate there is no way to come to a conclusion in this regard. It will be noted that the giants produced, according to Enoch, were 300 cubits/ells tall, which according to my math cones to 225 feet. A tall tale indeed.
Oops. My math was wrong. Enoch, chapter 7, verses 11 and 12 say, “…the women conceiving brought forth giants, whose stature was three hundred cubits.” Another version I saw said “ells” instead of “cubits.” Wikipedia says ells and cubits are interchangeable, each being 18″ in length, or 1.5′. Three hundred times 1.5 equals 450 feet, twice as tall as my original calculation. Makes the tale twice as tall.
Dr. Erhman, always enjoy your biblical historical knowledge, very interesting! Looking at this post, caught my eye and touches on the very critical issue when it comes to putting the OT and NT pieces together. Without a good basic foundational understanding of the old testament, will be impossible to understand the new testament.
When I ask people in general about what’s significant about Genesis 1:1, nothing to do with religion or one’s belief system, they provide an elaborate explanation that I think they completely miss its purpose.
Regardless of the translation, Genesis 1:1too difficult to discern and understand?
Any comments Dr. Erhman?
Thanks! Stay safe..
I don’t thI don’t think it’s hard to understand; there was no form or substance to the earth before God formed it into a place for life.
Hi. I read that the Greek giant Tityos is frozen on Dante’s outer ring of treachery in the Inferno along with “biblical giants.” Might there be an ancient common source for the Greek Titans and the Hebrew Nephilim?
Kind regards,
Yup, some scholars have suggested that. But it’s hard to know if there’a a direct link — lots of ancient folk that thought the distant ancestors were giants or knew of giants, possibly because of fossils they inadvertently found?
Dr. Ehrman,
1. What is your view that prophecy is fulfilled in increments? The idea of “now and not yet” fulfillment of prophecy “in stages?” Is that true?
That’s a theological question that different believers/theologians would answer differently. As a historian rather than a theologian I have no way of knowing how a divine being would fulfill prophecies, all at once or in stages. I CAN say, though, that early Christians such as the author of Matthew definitely thought that “prophecies” were literally fulfilled at one point and then more “fully” (hence “ful-filled”) later — e.g., “Out of Egypt I have called my son,” referring in Hosea to the nation of Israel at the exodus and in Matthew to the return of Jesus from Egypt as an infant. In interpreting prophecy that way, Matthew (and others) were very much in line with how Jewish interpreters read the prophets.