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Why are there no Gospel-only cults?
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egordon

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July 15, 2020 - 2:25 pm

Why has there never been a sect, cult, or denomination that followed ONLY Jesus Christ? Why is there no belief system that has as its only canon the Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, and perhaps Thomas? Or maybe just one of them, if that’s all that was available.

I mean, even if a Christ-only belief system is ultimately wrong (if there is such a thing as “wrong” in religion), it seems like a logical Christian way. Yet, I have found no evidence of any such cult.

Was there ever such a cult or sect? Confused

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Robert
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July 15, 2020 - 4:45 pm
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egordon

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July 15, 2020 - 5:25 pm

Robert said
Marcion accepted a shorter version of the gospel of Luke and a shorter corpus of Pauline writings, but none of the Jewish scriptures. That’s seems somewhat similar to what you’re looking for.  

Thanks for the response, but that’s not really it. I’m familiar with Marcion, but he would be almost the opposite of that. I’m talking about a sect that followed only the Gospels or maybe one of them, if that’s all they had. Some group that followed only the teachings of Jesus Christ.

I’ve pretty much exhausted all avenues to this question. I tried asking Bart Ehrman himself, but he just told me to join this blog. Which I have. 

I can’t believe I’m the only one in the world–in the history of the world–to have thought of this. I mean, it seems logical, you know? 

We don’t know who wrote the Gospels, so we don’t know who they were intended for. But the fact that they are anonymous indicates to me they may have been part of a sect that followed only the life and teachings of Jesus Christ. 

Well…there it is, I guess. Thanks again, Robert for the reply.

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Hngerhman

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July 15, 2020 - 5:35 pm

Would the Ebionites fit the bill?

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Stephen
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July 15, 2020 - 9:39 pm

Well I imagine all these early groups thought they were following the life and teachings of Jesus.  For some unknown length of time the gospel of Mark existed alone so presumably his community believed they were.  The  people who tantalize me are the Jesus followers who remained in Galilee when  Jesus  and  his disciples made their ill fated last journey to Jerusalem.  People who sat at Jesus’ feet. What  became  of  them?    

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egordon

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July 16, 2020 - 1:40 am

Hngerhman said
Would the Ebionites fit the bill?  

No, I don’t think so. They were a sect that adhered to the Mosaic law. So, they wouldn’t be it. They may have even predated the Gospels anyway. 

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egordon

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July 16, 2020 - 1:58 am

Stephen said
Well I imagine all these early groups thought they were following the life and teachings of Jesus.  For some unknown length of time the gospel of Mark existed alone so presumably his community believed they were.  The  people who tantalize me are the Jesus followers who remained in Galilee when  Jesus  and  his disciples made their ill fated last journey to Jerusalem.  People who sat at Jesus’ feet. What  became  of  them?      

What you say about the people who had the Gospel of Mark, I agree. Who were they? The others, like the Galileans you mention, would not be what I’m talking about. They didn’t have the Gospel record. You know, Mark was probably written late, some time after the ministry of Paul. So, I would have expected a cult like this to have existed, probably, in the second century or late first century. Like, who was the Gospel of Thomas written for? Who were they?

But even so, I’ve had a revelation tonight: I can definitely think of one group: The Apostles.  

Granted, they were cowards and Jesus died alone. But afterward, after Jesus showed himself to them, after they were given the Holy Spirit, they were following only the teachings of Jesus Christ.

Ehhhh, but still, that’s not really it, is it? The question is why no one ever took the four Gospels (besides me) and said, “This is my canon. This is my Bible, because I’m not following any other teacher than Jesus Christ.”

I find it hard to believe that in nearly 2000 years of Christian history that Ed Gordon, the Loser, is the only one this dawned on. I don’t want that to be the case. I want there to have been others. I want to follow; I don’t want to lead. I’ve never been a leader. I’m no good at it. 

Twenty-seven years ago, I made a choice to follow only the Gospels and nothing else. I only love Jesus Christ, and I only know about God because of him. I have been alone in my Christian walk ever since then. I have been kicked out of blogs, groups, newsgroups, MSN groups, AOL groups, atheist groups, Christian groups, web forums and I’ve even had death threats. I have been called a heretic, a satanist, the Antichrist (Imagine me as the Antichrist! I’ll bet he makes some serious bank, though. Surprised

Nevertheless, this can’t be it: In the world, in 2020, in the age of everyone preaching everything, in the post-cult world, that the only time it dawned on anyone to follow only the Gospels was when I thought of it. It’s not possible.

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Robert
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July 16, 2020 - 8:47 am
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egordon

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July 16, 2020 - 2:33 pm

Robert said
Wouldn’t the free-wheeling Jesus people of the late 60s / early 70s fit the bill. Think of the play/movie Godspell. No Paul. No Moses. No organized institutional sect either. Or is that what you want, an organized, institutional sect? An official certificate of membership? Will that make you feel less like a loser?

I do remember Godspell and Jesus Christ Superstar, but I lived those days, you know? That’s when I first became aware of God and Jesus Christ as a child. I was born in 1964, and my older sister used to go to church all the time, so I first went to Sunday School probably in 1971. So, I remember the hippies. I don’t think they ever had any real sense of Jesus Christ–I think they just identified with his long hair and the idea of “love” which they translated as “sex.” I think they liked the way he bucked the system. Today, the spirit of the hippie is still around, but I think they tend to be atheists–and they might as well be.

Nevertheless, I’m thinking more institutionally, more theologically. It just seems like there should have been or be a cult or sect or something. Someone should have written a book at least. Because in some ways, I almost feel like I’m going mad. Like I’m in a dream or something. I mean, it’s kind of a logical idea. You pick up the Bible, you see the red letters in the Gospels, and you say, “Why would I follow anything else? Someone must have had some inkling, because they put his words in red.”

But, more importantly, Ed Gordon, why do you think you’re a loser?   

Thank you for asking, and I don’t know. I always walk around with a nagging sense that I should have done something more with my life. I’ve done a lot, I suppose, and I’m okay financially (middle class), but there’s something huge missing, and I don’t know what it is. 

What I do know is that I have formed this religion, you know. I call it Veridicanism. That’s a neologism (Veridical = true, -an = a follower, -ism = a doctrine, so, Veridicanism is the doctrine of those who follow that which is true). It has been a 27-year struggle for me, but my canon is only the NT Gospels, the Gospel of Thomas, and the Gospel harmony I wrote using all of those Gospels called, The Veridican Gospel of Jesus Christ. And one of my tenets is that I follow only Jesus Christ. All other books of the Holy Bible are good for historical background and context, but only the Gospels are “The Word of God.” That’s what I believe. 

But I’m the only Veridican. My wife says she’s a Veridican, too, but she only knows what I tell her about it. So, that’s it. Frankly, I would gladly hang up my “Veridican” hat if I could find a cult or sect that believes the way I do–that we should only follow the life and teachings of Jesus Christ as found in the Gospels.

Anyway…if you’ve read this far, thank you. I feel very alone in my spirituality, and for me, spirituality is everything. It helps me to write about it. So, thanks.

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Robert
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July 16, 2020 - 3:57 pm
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egordon

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July 16, 2020 - 4:12 pm

Robert said
Very interesting. I’m sure there are a lot of like-minded individuals, ‘though perhaps not organized together. Some Unitarian churches might be to your liking if you would also like an open-minded approach to other religions. You’ve probably already heard of ** you do not have permission to see this link **, but if not, this might interest you.  

Thanks. Actually, Thomas Jefferson was kind of like Bart Ehrman, an atheist who didn’t like Jesus being portrayed as a god–or worse, the God!

And I tried the Unitarian/Universalist church at one time when I lived in California. Unfortunately, that’s not me. It’s not Jesus either. I mean, there are very few people as elitist, dogmatic, and judgemental as Jesus Christ–and I say all that as a compliment. That’s not really the U/U way of seeing things. 

But I do believe what you say, that there are many like-minded individuals. They are out there somewhere; they may not even know it yet, because maybe no one’s ever put it into words for them before. 

Or, then again, maybe I’m the only one in the world who feels this way. A religion of one: what a lonely place to be.

Thanks for your input, Robert. I appreciate it. 

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Robert
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July 16, 2020 - 5:26 pm
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egordon

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July 16, 2020 - 8:09 pm

Robert said
OK, as opposed to Thomas Jefferson or Bart, it sounds like you fully accept the perspective of the gospels regarding Jesus as divine (probable for the synoptics, definite for John). Paul certainly agreed with that and came to that perspective well before any of the gospels were written. He worked hard to found like-minded communities among the gentiles. Is your principle objection to his perspective that he accepted the Jewish scriptures as authoritative? There’s certainly other things you also may not like about Paul–care to elaborate?  

Yes, I certainly consider Jesus Christ to be Divine. He is the only begotten Son of God. He is our revelation of God. Just as I am a revelation of God to my dogs, so Jesus is a revelation of God to me. I’ve been down so many paths, you wouldn’t believe. I was a full-time professional psychic for over a year at one time. I was a demonolater as well. All those paths, they go nowhere. I mean, I won’t even judge them as sin, that’s incidental if it matters at all. What’s so bad about the occult and New Age is that after years and years going down those paths, you end up nowhere. God loses all definition. In the end, there’s just an amorphous force, if you even believe that by then. When Jesus said, I am the way, the truth, and the life, and no one comes to the Father except by me–he wasn’t joking, and I don’t just believe that; I know that for a fact.

That said, what about Paul? Paul is fine. I don’t have a problem with Paul. He was eloquent, he was enlightened, he clearly loved Jesus Christ, and he was no doubt one of the elect, but Paul was just a man. He was just one of many itinerant Christian preachers at that time, and he wrote letters to churches. He also solicited funds from them–like so many preachers. But I have no problem with that. What I have a problem with is his teachings, his words, being considered just as important as the life and teachings of Jesus Christ in the Gospel record. They are not.

But people in the Church love Paul, because he’s one of them. He’s “of the World.” He preaches easy to digest morality, laws, rules, admonitions. Not like Jesus. Jesus is something altogether different, but he’s hard to understand. A person must really believe he is “the Truth” and then go from there; they have to “get him,” or they’ll never understand a thing he says. He is God, and the path to God is not paved with the headstones of ancient Jews.

My problem with Paul is that he leads the elect astray–he doesn’t mean to. Moreover, I doubt he ever intended us to be worshiping his letters to the churches.

I want to thank you for bringing this out of me with our conversation. I have come to an understanding tonight, a clarity of purpose and mission. I will certainly be telling you more about it later, or at least I’ll be posting it in here later.

Thanks again, Robert.

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Robert
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July 17, 2020 - 8:42 am
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Stephen
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July 17, 2020 - 7:17 pm

I agree that belief in psychics and the worship of demons is a path leading to self-deception and nothingness. Surely Jesus is a better guide than those!

Well I suppose on a purely practical level some delusions are better (less harmful) than others.  But  what to do with my fundamentalist cousin Larry who believes in both Jesus and demons?

I also do not think Paul would have ever expected his letters to be worshiped.

Perhaps but he clearly claimed divine authority for his pronouncements. Jesus probably did as well.  

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Robert
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July 17, 2020 - 7:37 pm
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Stephen
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July 17, 2020 - 10:04 pm

But does your cousin Larry worship demons?

No, but from my pov the actual problem is believing in them at all.  It hardly matters whether somebody worships them or fears them. 

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egordon

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July 18, 2020 - 9:34 am

I debated atheists for 25 years. That was my thing. That’s what I liked to do. I have three original arguments for the existence of God that came out of those years. I don’t bother debating atheists anymore. For one, few are intellectual philosophers anymore. Nowadays, they’re pretty much just all in it for the social liberalism. Most of the time, they just insult, but won’t engage in any real debate.

But more importantly, it doesn’t matter if they are atheists. Most people are not elect, even among the religious, and I believe that most people simply perish when they die. Some may go to hell first and then perish, but the vast majority of people simply perish.

Only the elect find eternal life with Jesus Christ and the Father–and they are very few and far between. So, my point is, the atheists are right for most people because for most people, it really doesn’t matter if God exists; there’s no reason for them to trouble their heads about Him. When their blink of a life is over, they will know nothing. It will be as if they never were. Just like the atheists say it will be.

I’d like to think that in their last moment, they travel toward the light, so to speak, and they feel true love, true home, true belonging as they approach the perfection of God, and then the closer they get, the more they dissolve back into the mind of God, until they simply are no more, just like before they were ever born.

For the elect, it’s different, and when the elect realize who they are and that they no longer believe in God but are certain of God, they don’t waste their time with those who can never benefit from the knowledge of God.

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Robert
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July 18, 2020 - 10:34 am
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Stephen
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July 18, 2020 - 1:46 pm

egordon  wrote:

I debated atheists for 25 years. That was my thing. That’s what I liked to do. I have three original arguments for the existence of God that came out of those years. I don’t bother debating atheists anymore. For one, few are intellectual philosophers anymore. Nowadays, they’re pretty much just all in it for the social liberalism. Most of the time, they just insult, but won’t engage in any real debate.

Well I’ve self-identified as an atheist for 25 years.  While I have no interest in a “debate” I remain intensely interested in the vagaries of human belief.  So  I am very curious to hear any “original” arguments for the existence of God (while skeptical of the  possibility).  I’m not a practicing academic philosopher,  intellectual  or otherwise,  but  one of my advanced  degrees  is in philosophy of religion.    (I wrote my master’s thesis on Wittgenstein.  I tell you that only so you can feel comfortable  framing the  discussion on as technical a level as you wish.)  I’m not sure who you’re used to dealing with but you won’t get any insults here unless of  course  you regard any sustained informed critique as an insult (some do).  

Can you sketch them out for me?  Or if this is not space enough can you point me somewhere you have? I’m genuinely  interested.

 

Robert  wrote

Fear and worship are indeed related in some ways.

Intertwined I would say.  Perhaps this is why Nietzsche feared if he lost his devils he would lose his angels as well.   It seems  clear the genius who composed the gospel of Mark would have understood.

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