Pagels:
Tertullian said they had a FIVE year initiation process.
Christians going into the secret gospels community as opposed to the public gospels.
The Gspel of Truth?
The Gospel of Philip
Video:
All of the pagan rituals roll up to Jesus’ ritual.
Steefen:
That is a literary device for superiority.
Pagels
“The author of John turns Thomas into a fool.”
Chapter 11
Let’s go with him, we’re going to die with him.
Chapter 14
Jesus says, I’m going to Father. You know the way.
Thomas is stupid. He says. We don’t know the way, what are you talking about?
Third Way
Thomas wasn’t there when Jesus appears to the disciples.
We saw the Lord.
Thomas: I don’t believe it.
Jesus has to come back a second time ao Thomas would “get it.”
Steefen:
Wow, I didn’t know Gospel of John had an ax to pick with Gospel of Thomas ! ! !
So, in addition to Lazarus not being in the Synoptic Gospels, there is a lack of Jesus speaking speaking about the Kingdom of God; and now, this John vs. Lazarus stuff.
pick up at 23:39 of 32:02
Θεοσις is an abstract word. (σις) abstract suffix. ** you do not have permission to see this link **
Γενεσις (σις) γενω, γινομαι,
That’s a big Greek Orthodox question because those words aren’t in the Ancient Greek dictionary.
The closest word I can find to θεοσις deification is θεοω: verb, ρημα, first person, singular, present tense, Indicative mood,
Active voice: I deify
Middle voice: I deify myself
Passive voice: I am deified
Theology in Greek Orthodox is not based on anything relevant to academic achievement. It’s all based on θεοσις. Having a Masters of Divinity, PhD doesn’t mean anything in Greek Orthodox theology. ** you do not have permission to see this link **
Is the idea “the church is a dead body of Christ” a gnostic idea?
1 Corinthians 12:27
υμεις δε εστε σωμα Χριστου
Y’all δε y’all is a dead body of Christ.
Dictionary says that in Homer dialect
σωμα is dead body,
δεμας is living body.
Then later there was no difference, σωμα was both dead or living body. I wonder where that idea came from 🤔
Comment 5
The first way comes from John Chapter 11 verse 16
The second way is 14: 5
The third way comes from John Chapter 20 beginning at 24
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Gospel of John
No kingdom of God but
I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
I am the light, I am the door, I am the bread of life, I am the Resurrection and the Life. I am the only begotten Son.
You’ve got to believe in the only begotten Son and if you don’t, you’re doomed for eternal damnation.
The Synoptics and the Gospel of Thomas suggest that anyone who follows Jesus is a child of God.
The Gospel of Thomas says, When they say to you, Where do you come from? Say, We come from the light. We are children of the Light. We are children of the living God, just like Jesus.
The author of Gospel of John strongly disagreed. God has only one child and that his Jesus. Gos. of John making a contrast to the Gos. of Thomas thought that once you come to know who you are, you will know you are Children of God–that’s what the kingdom of God is.
Author of Gos, of John is so incensed, he shows Thomas in a bad light.
Thomas: you’re not my brother, you’re not my twin, you’re my Lord and my God. So, in the third way Thomas is shown to agree with John.
These three ways of making Thomas look bad are NOT in the Synoptics–totally an invention of Gos. of Jn.
This is from, she says, her book Beyond Belief: The Secret Gospel of Thomas
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Pagels:
Because you’re a human being, you have access to the Divine Source within you because you’re created in the image of the Source from which everything came.
Steefen: I disagree with Pagels. We’re created in the image of the Igiggi, the Anunnaki lower gods. Second, my current understanding is that the Anunnaki are not the Source from which everything came.
Dr. Ehrman,
Elaine Pagels says Gos. of Jn puts Thomas down 3 times–and these, she says, are not in the Synoptics:
11:16
We’re going to die with Jesus in Jerusalem.
14: 5
Jesus: I’m going to the Father. You know the way.
Thomas: We don’t know the way.
20:24
Thomas wasn’t there when after the resurrection, Jesus appeared to the disciples.
Thomas: No, I don’t believe it.
Then, to have Thomas be won over by John:
Thomas: Yes, my Lord and My God–not my twin, not my brother. We are unlike you.
John does not have Jesus, himself, talking about the kingdom of God. It is:
I am the way, the truth, and the life.
No one comes to the Father but through me.
I am the light. Thomas is wrong to say Christians are children of the light with Jesus being one of the children of God.
I am the door, I am the bread of life, I am the Resurrection and the Life.
I am the only begotten Son.
You’ve got to believe in the only begotten Son and if you don’t, you’re doomed for eternal damnation.
John is correcting the beliefs that can be traced back to Thomas and the Synoptics.
What do you think about that?
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Dr. Bart Ehrman: I don’t think John knew Thomas and the Synoptics.
Steefen
The Gospel of John was likely written in Ephesus, in Asia Minor (modern-day Turkey), during the late 1st century, around 90-100 CE, for Christians of Hellenistic background.
1) But he would have known about the Church of Ephesus and how Paul (who died 64/65) preached the coming kingdom of God and Eph 5:5.
2) With Mark being written approximately 70CE, the author of John did not know the first of the Synoptics or the Oral History of Jesus teaching people to prepare for the kingdom.
Pagels: a follower of Jesus is not like Jesus, a child of God Gos of Thomas, saying 50
Steefen: Gos of Thomas isn’t the only place this is seen: Matthew 5:9, 1 John 3:2
So, we don’t know why there are the three put downs of Thomas in the Gos of John
Conclusion: Pagel’s argument is not strong or in error.
Bart:
I don’t see how Thomas can date before the 120s or so.
Thin that Thomas knew John.
Steefen
Author of Thomas has at least 10 years and doesn’t know of the Johanine community or its gospel?
BDEhrman
FreedomBen
evgendob
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