Sorry for sounding like proselytizing, but I want to clearly say that is not my goal .I would not even call myself a believer, anyways .My question is why like an Eastern orthodox way of salvation would sound very off to most protestants ,if it is even that the case? At least ,how I understand this way: you can’t be perfect and follow precisely what would make you right with God because that is how humans work since Adam,but the crucifixion, death and ressurection of jesus provide humanity the way to be right and earn eternal life with him and now you can accept the ethos of what can make you right with God but through real belief that he can forgive you all the sins if you become humble that you are sinful (even “minor” sins are sins) and make the decision to change yourself and do more good deeds and do less sins(even though you know at the end of the day you will keep doing sins and even maybe the same or worse sins than before).The forgiveness of sins happens with the sacrament of confession and then you try to become better praying God to help you for that.Saints become saints because the do that spiritiual race that allow God to give them the Holy Spirit to become even more like God .It isn’t that orthodox believe that salvation comes from the works of a human alone but with their true repetance ,they allow God’s grace to forgive their sins and even help them from sining and make them do good deeds.You add to that some other things and sacraments like the most important for them Holy Communion, but the best way to describe it is that the most safe way for believers is that you have to always do the one step to allow god to help you with the rest steps ,but through their church (which contains sacraments of course).Sorry ,if my language was poor.
I suspect the biggest issues (assuming we are talking about something like classical protestants) are, first, that the Orthodox take theosis seriously, and second, even with the caveats you added, it looks like werkgerechtigkeit.
The first is really important. For Luther and co., there is no real change in the believer when he is justified. Justification is extrinsic and simply imputed; the justified sinner remains the same essentially sinful man he always was. In Orthodoxy, you have a robust conception of God actually, internally transforming the one justified.
This ties in to the second point: Luther isn’t perfectly consistent on this, but he has places where he says that even to try to avoid sins, to try to live justly is to fail in your faith in Christ. There are famous passages where he is downright antinomian. The point he wants to make is that you are a sinner, and Christ alone saves you despite you sinfulness, and he does that without changing you.
The Orthodox are a lot closer to that attitude than their more legalistic Western Catholic brothers, but Orthodoxy puts a lot of emphasis on the importance of actions and practices in pursuing holiness–fasting, or in more extreme cases, monasticism, and so forth. You may not be able to achieve perfection, but you are expected to try and to try pretty hard, and progress is possible.
But honestly, I suspect the biggest reason is just sociological. I don’t think most people pick religions based on theology (obviously there are some, but I think they are a small minority). Orthodoxy–the attitudes, the practices, the aesthetics–is culturally very foreign to Protestantism.
Something that stands half-way between those two is their radically different attitudes to the saints. Can you imagine the average Protestant touching the ground and crossing himself every time he hears the name of the most glorious ever-virgin Theotokos?
Still, like Robert says, there are people who convert from Protestantism to Orthodoxy.
Luther isn’t perfectly consistent on this, but he has places where he says that even to try to avoid sins, to try to live justly is to fail in your faith in Christ. There are famous passages where he is downright antinomian. The point he wants to make is that you are a sinner, and Christ alone saves you despite you sinfulness, and he does that without changing you.
This viewpoint reaches it’s nadir in an opposition to efforts towards social justice. I grew up amongst folks who claimed to be Christian but who opposed such efforts. There was a horror of what was called “works based” religion. The functional result was a diminishing of concern. Salvation came only through “right” doctrine.
…there are people who convert from Protestantism to Orthodoxy.
When I was still searching (instead of merely being lost) I looked towards the East myself. The concern with aesthetics in woship was overwhelming having come from a tradition that was suspicious of such things. What finally undermined my appreciation of Orthodoxy is that culturally, politically and even spirtually it is utterly reactionary. I was informed at one point that Orthodoxy had not changed a single idea since the 7th century. Aside from the fact that this is clearly false, I was flabbergasted that the idea of not changing your ideas was considered an acclamation!
BDEhrman
FreedomBen
evgendob
Robert
1 Guest(s)