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Argumentation Specialist - Math Refutes Materialism & Points to God. Let the Atheists and Agnostics Try to Win This Debate
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Steefen
7786 Posts
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August 3, 2024 - 1:07 am

Argumentation Specialist – Math Refutes Materialism & Points to God. Let the Atheists and Agnostics Try to Win This Debate

Try not to go over 200 replies. Thank you.
Steve Campbell, Argumentation Specialist

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Steefen
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August 3, 2024 - 1:11 am

Agnostic here. I have to say that this breakdown of the mathematical argument for intelligent design is probably the most serious and convincing argument for God I’ve ever encountered on the Internet.

-sirgb7

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DavidFord

1428 Posts
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August 3, 2024 - 11:32 am

How Math Refutes Materialism & Points To GOD – Daily Dose Of Wisdom
Stephen Meyer talks to Ben Shapiro

==
Richard Dawkins
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But, however many ways there may be of being alive, it is certain that there are vastly more ways of being dead, or rather not alive.

==
There was an origin of life:
The universe is currently expanding.
Going back in time, the universe gets smaller and smaller, to the point where it was once the size of a baseball, and much too hot for biological life to exist.
Life currently exists.
Thus, life must have begun to exist.

==
A mutation can be beneficial, neutral, or deleterious.
Re: possible AA sequences 147 AAs long, the overwhelming percentage are nonfunctional,
and a miniscule fraction are functional.
How did mutation + natural selection arrive at a functional hemoglobin subunit beta AA sequence?

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Hemoglobin subunit beta
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Amino acids 147

There are 20^147 possible variations on an AA sequence the length of that in hemoglobin subunit beta.

Out of all the possible AA sequence variants of a length of 147, what percent are:
functional?
nonfunctional?

=====
Do you agree with me that intelligence/mind is responsible for the origination of the information encoded in computer programming code?

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Bill Gates explains,
“DNA is like a computer program, but far, far more advanced than any software we’ve ever created.”

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Did you know that DNA is the densest form of data storage we know of?

One gram (less than 1/2 teaspoon) of DNA can store 215 petabytes of information, or 215,000 1TB hard drives.
It uses a quaternary (4) based code vs. standard binary (2) computer code and has built-in error correcting mechanisms.
It can be read forward and backward and refolds to activate different “programs” during development and the life of the organism.
If it were printed on standard A4 paper, the entire code base would take 792,000 sheets of paper, which would make a stack 240+ feet tall.

It is perhaps the most complicated and advanced thing we know of. It is not the result of random events but of specific design and for a purpose.
You are made up of the most advanced technology known to man.

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Dr. Doug Corrigan @ScienceWDrDoug on Hemoglobin
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The graphic below is a molecular 3D model of one of the most important proteins in the human body — hemoglobin.

Hemoglobin is the major oxygen transporting protein in the body, and is made up of four proteins that combine to to form a structure that is perfect for binding and releasing oxygen precisely when it is needed. Hemoglobin proteins are present in every red blood cell to help transport oxygen from the lungs to all of the tissues and cells in the body. Hemoglobin increases the oxygen carrying capacity of human blood by 70 times.

Each hemoglobin protein can hold 4 oxygen molecules. Residing in each hemoglobin protein are 4 separate “heme” molecules that provide a perfect molecular environment for binding molecular oxygen. At the center of each heme molecule is an iron ion that is perfectly positioned to electrically connect to the oxygen molecule by transferring an electron to the oxygen molecule. In this state, oxygen is perfectly stable as it hitches a ride through the circulatory system nestled inside the hemoglobin protein.

Hemoglobin can “sense” the microenvironment of its surroundings to determine if it should bind oxygen or release oxygen. By measuring pH, CO2 content, and oxygen pressure, the protein can switch between two structural shapes that are tuned to either bind oxygen or release oxygen.

When the protein is primed to accept oxygen, a single oxygen molecule will bind to the first heme group. This, in turn, induces a structural shift in the shape of the entire hemoglobin protein, which then causes the remaining 3 heme groups to more readily bind oxygen. This is called “cooperative” binding, and it is this fine tuning of how hemoglobin senses and binds to oxygen that provides it with the agility to bind and release oxygen quickly and efficiently.

In the fetus, the structure of hemoglobin is slightly different than hemoglobin that is found in an adult. It is composed of a different combination of the 4 subunits that combine to form hemoglobin (designated α2γ2). This form of hemoglobin has a greater affinity for oxygen than adult hemoglobin; and this, in turn, causes oxygen in the maternal blood to be transferred to the hemoglobin in the fetal blood.

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Materialists– including Dawkins– don’t know how the information present in DNA originated.

_The Blind Watchmaker_ by Richard Dawkins (1986)
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It is raining DNA outside.
On the bank of the Oxford canal at the bottom of my garden is a large willow tree, and it is pumping downy seeds into the air. … spreading DNA whose coded characters spell out specific instructions for building willow trees that will shed a new generation of downy seeds. …
It is raining instructions out there; it’s raining programs; it’s raining tree-growing, fluff-spreading, algorithms.
That is not a metaphor, it is the plain truth.
It couldn’t be any plainer if it were raining floppy discs.

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Jill_L

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August 3, 2024 - 11:42 am

I say of this subject the Book of Job would be apt for discussion.

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Steefen
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August 3, 2024 - 6:40 pm

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Stephen
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August 4, 2024 - 9:25 pm

Evolutionary science wobbles off its foundations. Biologists despair at their wasted lives. – On YouTube! Nowhere else.

No, we don’t know everything. So what? We never will. What exactly is the argument being made when you point that out?

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DavidFord

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August 4, 2024 - 9:36 pm

“we don’t know everything”
Do we know how life could have come from nonlife via totally-mindless processes, all totally-apart from any pre-existing life?

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Stephen
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August 5, 2024 - 1:36 pm

“we don’t know everything”
Do we know how life could have come from nonlife via totally-mindless processes, all totally-apart from any pre-existing life?

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Robert
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August 5, 2024 - 3:50 pm
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DavidFord

1428 Posts
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August 5, 2024 - 9:02 pm

“Do we know how life could have come from nonlife via totally-mindless processes, all totally-apart from any pre-existing life?”

2013
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The origin of life (OOL) problem continues to be one of the most intriguing and challenging questions in science…

_The Logic of Chance: The Nature and Origin of Biological Evolution_ (2012), 516pp.
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Page 391
The origin of life is one of the hardest problems in all of science, but it is also one of the most important.
Origin-of-life research has evolved into a lively, interdisciplinary field, but other scientists often view it with skepticism and even derision.

This attitude is understandable and, in a sense, perhaps justified, given the “dirty,” rarely mentioned secret:
Despite many interesting results to its credit, when judged by the straightforward criterion of reaching (or even approaching) the ultimate goal, the origin of life field is a failure– we still do not have even a plausible coherent model, let alone a validated scenario, for the emergence of life on Earth.

Certainly, this is due not to a lack of experimental and theoretical effort, but to the extraordinary intrinsic difficulty and complexity of the problem.
A succession of exceedingly unlikely steps is essential for the origin of life, from the synthesis and accumulation of nucleotides to the origin of translation; through the multiplication of probabilities, these make the final outcome seem almost like a miracle.

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DavidFord

1428 Posts
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August 5, 2024 - 9:05 pm

“we don’t know everything”
Do we know how the vast quantity of information encoded in biology’s DNA could have originated?

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DavidFord

1428 Posts
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August 5, 2024 - 9:08 pm

“I’ve yet to see any reason to believe that the first non-intelligent (or at least extremely unintelligent) forms of life were the product of a mindful creator”
Have you seen any reasons to believe that the first biological lifeform was the product of totally-mindless processes?

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DavidFord

1428 Posts
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August 5, 2024 - 9:14 pm

“Evolutionary science wobbles off its foundations”

Giving Up Darwin
A fond farewell to a brilliant and beautiful theory.
by David Gelernter
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Like so many others, I grew up with Darwin’s theory, and had always believed it was true.
I had heard doubts over the years from well-informed, sometimes brilliant people, but I had my hands full cultivating my garden, and it was easier to let biology take care of itself.
But in recent years, reading and discussion have shut that road down for good.

This is sad.
It is no victory of any sort for religion.
It is a defeat for human ingenuity.
It means one less beautiful idea in our world, and one more hugely difficult and important problem back on mankind’s to-do list.
But we each need to make our peace with the facts, and not try to make life on earth simpler than it really is.

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Robert
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August 5, 2024 - 9:16 pm
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DavidFord

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August 5, 2024 - 9:18 pm

“of this subject the Book of Job would be apt for discussion”
What are some Job verses that “of this subject… would be apt for discussion”?

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DavidFord

1428 Posts
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August 5, 2024 - 9:21 pm

“evidence is long gone and thus now completly lacking for whatever historical and chemical and biological processes that first produced life on earth billions of years ago”
Is your answer to the question that concludes this post:
‘No’?
‘Yes’?

Do we know how life could have come from nonlife via totally-mindless processes, all totally-apart from any pre-existing life?

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Robert
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August 5, 2024 - 9:24 pm
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Steefen
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August 5, 2024 - 9:30 pm

Robert:
Excellent article, Stephen.

Do we know how life could have come from nonlife via totally-mindless processes, all totally-apart from any pre-existing life?

I’ve yet to see any reason to believe that the first non-intelligent (or at least extremely unintelligent) forms of life were the product of a mindful creator.

Steefen
Robert, see the forum I just started showing how Darwin/Evolution fails.
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DavidFord

1428 Posts
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August 5, 2024 - 9:57 pm

“the article Stephen linked to… answers your question”

2013
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The origin of life (OOL) problem continues to be one of the most intriguing and challenging questions in science…

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Robert
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August 5, 2024 - 10:04 pm
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