Robert said
Steefen, you seem to be very keen on differentiating the date when the gospel of Luke was written and the date when the Acts of the Apostles was written. Steve Mason seems to pretty much consider them as a combination in their current state, as do most scholars. If you only want to focus on the date of composition for the gospel of Luke (or a proto-Luke), leaving open the possibility that Acts could have been written considerably later, you will not find that discussed very much in the scholarship.But, one of the stories of Luke’s gospel that might betray some familiarity of Luke upon the writings of Josephus is his autobiographical story of him teaching in erusalem at a young age:
I made mighty proficiency in the improvements of my learning, and appeared to have both a great memory and understanding. Moreover, when I was a child, and about fourteen years of age, I was commended by all for the love I had to learning; on which account the high priests and principal men of the city came then frequently to me together, in order to know my opinion about the accurate understanding of points of the law.
εἰς μεγάλην παιδείας προύκοπτον ἐπίδοσιν μνήμῃ τε καὶ συνέσει δοκῶν διαφέρειν, ἔτι δ’ ἀντίπαις ὢν περὶ τεσσαρεσκαιδέκατον ἔτος διὰ τὸ φιλογράμματον ὑπὸ πάντων ἐπῃνούμην συνιόντων ἀεὶ τῶν ἀρχιερέων καὶ τῶν τῆς πόλεως πρώτων ὑπὲρ τοῦ παρ’ ἐμοῦ περὶ τῶν νομίμων ἀκριβέστερόν τι γνῶναι.
… they found him in the temple, sitting among the teachers, listening to them and asking them questions. And all who heard him were amazed at his understanding and his answers. … And Jesus increased in wisdom and in years, and in divine and human favor.
Καὶ ὅτε ἐγένετο ἐτῶν δώδεκα … εὗρον αὐτὸν ἐν τῷ ἱερῷ καθεζόμενον ἐν μέσῳ τῶν διδασκάλων καὶ ἀκούοντα αὐτῶν καὶ ἐπερωτῶντα αὐτούς· ἐξίσταντο δὲ πάντες οἱ ἀκούοντες αὐτοῦ ἐπὶ τῇ συνέσει καὶ ταῖς ἀποκρίσεσιν αὐτοῦ. Καὶ ἰδόντες αὐτὸν ἐξεπλάγησαν … Καὶ Ἰησοῦς προέκοπτεν [ἐν τῇ] σοφίᾳ καὶ ἡλικίᾳ καὶ χάριτι παρὰ θεῷ καὶ ἀνθρώποις.
While this is an interesting possibility to consider there is not enough similarity in language to demonstrate dependence. It’s just an interesting possibility to consider. If there’s any familiarity or dependence, Luke makes Jesus a year younger than Josephus, but in the place the latter’s arrogant boasting, Jesus is shown to be more modest, listening and asking questions and still increasing in wisdom, and yet indirectly alluding to his identity as the son of God, which foreshadows the very next scene when Jesus is proclaimed the son of God by God himself at his baptism.
If we further open this up to proto-Luke hypotheses, one will immediately note that this story would be part of a later addition to a proto-Luke, perhaps corresponding to a later revision closer to the time of composition of Acts if we assume it to have been written considerably later. And yet this later redactor can still be seen as creating links to the earlier and later works. But this is all purely speculative. In the end, it is the final text that one has to account for. Even if part(s) were added later, whoever would have made these additions created a new unity with some degree of skill.
I have been aware of the similarity above for at least eleven years.
The author/authors of the Gospel of Luke are not known.
Jesus and Josephus would not be the only A+ students in Jerusalem. Every year, high schools have valedictorians, each of whom could be older or younger by birthday as opposed by 12 months and each of whom can be more or less arrogant.
Although Josephus’ autobiography have been dated to 99 C.E. does not mean Josephus didn’t share this story before then. I wrote Historical Accuracy over 17 years and there are parts of the book I have been sharing long before it appeared in printed form. Later additions to proto-Luke do not require the completed and published autobiography of Josephus.
Robert said
Steefen said
Here’s the form of the flawed argument.
Harper Lee wrote To Kill a Mockingbird, published in 1960.
Harper Lee wrote Go Set a Watchman, published in 2015.
Harper Lee is the author of Mockingbird/Watchman.
Literary scholars date Mockingbird/Watchman to 2015, regardless that Mockingbird was published in 1960.
But neither can one assume that Acts was written considerably later than proto-Luke or Luke, and someone is responsible for the final unified version that we currently have. It is only the current text that we can investigate for signs of familiarity with the work of Josephus.
Back in 2015 when I was writing my presentation, Luke and Matthew were dated to 80-85 and Acts was dated to 80-150, with 150 being the latest possible year for early 2nd century (see below).
Encyclopedia Britannica says about gospel of Luke: The date and place of ** you do not have permission to see this link ** are uncertain, but many date the Gospel to 63–70 ce, others somewhat later.
Encyclopedia Britannica says Acts was written before 70 and 90.
We do not know when the author/s of the gospel of Luke died.
If Acts does show awareness of the Pauline epistles, and also of the work of the Jewish historian Josephus, as some believe, then a date in the early 2nd century is possible.
Boring, M. Eugene (2012). An Introduction to the New Testament: History, Literature, Theology. Westminster John Knox Press. ISBN 978-0-664-25592-3.
Scholars are not assuming Acts was written considerably later than gospel of Luke, from 80 to early 2nd century is at least 20 years. Scholars are not assuming, they are making a case that Acts has to follow Antiquities (93-94 CE) by Josephus.
Although Josephus’ autobiography have been dated to 99 C.E. does not mean Josephus didn’t share this story before then. I wrote Historical Accuracy over 17 years and there are parts of the book I have been sharing long before it appeared in printed form. Later additions to proto-Luke do not require the completed and published autobiography of Josephus.
should be
Although Josephus’ autobiography has been dated …
Steefen said
Paul Williams and Bart D.E.Matthew is not on message with Paul.
Steve Campbell, author of Historical Accuracy
So, it is not just Luke who is not on message with Paul.
pick up at 1:04.23 of 1:29.33
Paul Williams
How has Forgery and Counterforgery been received, not in the German speaking world but in the English speaking world?
Bart D.E.
I’m perplexed by the reception.
People are not reading it.
Paul Williams
Why are there forgeries in my New Testament?
BDEhrman
FreedomBen
evgendob
Robert
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