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First Century Historian from Galilee, Justus of Tiberias likely did not include a Jesus from the late 20s/early 30s (source: Photius, Bibliotheca)
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Steefen
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July 18, 2022 - 2:07 pm

This long work is divided into chapters, which are called ‘codices’, each chapter being a codex that Photius read.  Here is the one for Justus of Tiberias in the only English version made.

XXIII.  Read the Chronicle of Justus of Tiberias, entitled A Chronicle of the Kings of the Jews in the form of a genealogy, by Justus of Tiberias. He came from Tiberias in Galilee, from which he took his name.  He begins his history with Moses and carries it down to the death of the seventh Agrippa of the family of Herod and the last of the Kings of the Jews.  His kingdom, which was bestowed upon him by Claudius, was extended by Nero, and still more  by Vespasian.  

He died in the third year of Trajan, when the history ends. Justus’ style is very concise and he omits a great deal that is of utmost importance.  Suffering from the common fault of the Jews, to which race he belonged, he does not even mention the coming of Christ, the events of his life, or the miracles performed by Him. 

His father was a Jew named Pistus; Justus himself, according to Josephus, was one of the most abandoned of men, a slave to vice and greed.   He was a political opponent of Josephus, against whom he is said to have concocted several plots; but Josephus, although on several occasions he had his enemy in his power, only chastised him with words and let him go free.   It is said that the history which he wrote is in great part fictitious, especially where he describes the Judaeo-Roman war and the capture of Jerusalem.

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Steefen
I am just reading a Facebook thread.

GH
Was Justus of Tiberias plagiarised byJosephus when he wrote Jewish Wars and Antiquities?

AS
No one cares about the works of Josephus except for the mention of Jesus in the TF.

GH
If the TF was the only problem with Josephus… I’ve long held a suspicion that the existence of a 147 c.e. Hegessipus meant bigger problems for Josephan studies than JUST the TF…but looking over Photius on Justus of Tiberias really brought that home.

I have my own specialty as a comic writer here in Australia…for years I never thought to apply it to examining this stuff. But when I finally did…well…it actually was helpful. Because it became easier to work out when principles of fiction cropped up. Sort of “game recognises game.” Like working out NARRATIVE development…any first iteration is going to be different from a decades later iteration with accretions.

A first Evangelion will not be the same as a Commodan era “canonical” set of “four gospels.” This has Celsus to help with when he says a first version was built upon as a way to deal with objections (see also the known debate between a Marcionite and a proto-catholic).

Thanks to Photius, we know the Justus of Tiberias history clearly did NOT have Jesus even in it. Which is surprising considering that any historian with a northern experience would have known a Jesus spending time up north of Iudea or heard of one.

DA
GH, your Photius comment is rubbish, Justus was writing about kings and Jesus was not a king. Jesus was not anointed a priest or a king.

GH
People would not know a peasant teacher or a peasant critic of the religious establishment?

DA
I would focus on Justus not writing about two Herod Agrippas.

GH
Also show me a contemporary independent literary mention of Jesus that’s more than a paragraph or two (interpolations) in sources telling us in the greater part of their works something entirely different (Lucian’s Passing of Peregrinus, greater part of the work, is telling of that forger/huckster.

Steefen

Value of the thread?

When I was challenged to, Know Jesus, I eventually wanted to know Jesus historically. I had to think about Jewish historians:

– Josephus

– Justus of Tiberias

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Stephen
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July 18, 2022 - 3:35 pm

Value of the thread?

That’s not a question you really want to be asking.

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Steefen
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July 19, 2022 - 12:12 am

Value of the thread:

When thinking about the historical Jesus, think about the historians in the same century as the biblical Jesus and see how those Jewish historians wrote historical accounts or did not write historical accounts about the biblical Jesus.

As an investigator, as an editor, as an instructor on the historical Jesus, consult contemporary historians.

Second, the works of Josephus mention Justus of Tiberias writing a history. It is valuable to know whether or not Justus of Tiberias, Galilee mentioned the biblical Galilean (Jesus) inside or outside of his work. Including Photius on Justus of Tiberias is valuable in an objective investigation of the historical Jesus.

Did Justus of Tiberias or Agrippa II re-enact the Last Supper to remember the biblical Jesus of Galilee?

Did Josephus turn down the Last Supper re-enactment? Did Josephus visit the Jerusalem Church in order to write the TF? How did Josephus learn about Jesus, Jewish authorities, Pilate, followers of Jesus who thought they saw Jesus after his crucifixion? How did Josephus know Jesus performed surprising deeds when scholars covering the historical Jesus dismiss supernatural events. Is Josephus recording the mischievous superstition about Jesus rather than writing an historical account?

What independent sources support Josephus writing Jesus was a teacher of such people who accept “the truth” gladly. What was the most important truth of Jesus to Josephus–Jesus saying what?

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JAS

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July 19, 2022 - 5:55 am

Someone has a very inflated opinion of himself, and a very faulty concept of what we can ever really know about history, especially ancient history. It is a puzzle where there is no image of the completed picture, and most of the pieces are missing. There can be almost no certainty even about any of the most important questions, only educated guesses built upon a foundation of other guesses and what scant evidence can be assembled. If we approach the effort, we must embrace uncertainty, which is not necessarily the same as accepting every wild idea that can be expressed in words. It is all very complicated, and assertions of accuracy are mostly illusions.

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