Bart Ehrman Blog Readers Forum

A A A
Forum Scope


Match



Forum Options



Min search length: 3 characters / Max search length: 84 characters
Lost password?
sp_TopicIcon
GuanYu was Deified or His Deification Was Implied by Some. Jesus as Warrior has implied deification by name only--Joshua?
Avatar
Steefen
7792 Posts
(Offline)
1
April 17, 2023 - 11:13 pm

Guan Yu ([kwán ỳ] (listen); d. January or February 220[a]), courtesy name Yunchang, was a Chinese military general serving under the warlord Liu Bei during the late Eastern Han dynasty of China. Along with Zhang Fei, he shared a brotherly relationship with Liu Bei and accompanied him on most of his early exploits. Guan Yu played a significant role in the events leading up to the end of the Han dynasty and the establishment of Liu Bei’s state of Shu Han during the Three Kingdoms period. While he is remembered for his loyalty towards Liu Bei, he is also known for repaying Cao Cao’s kindness by slaying Yan Liang, a general under Cao Cao’s rival Yuan Shao, at the Battle of Boma. After Liu Bei gained control of Yi Province in 214, Guan Yu remained in Jing Province to govern and defend the area for about seven years. In 219, while he was away fighting Cao Cao’s forces at the Battle of Fancheng, Liu Bei’s ally Sun Quan broke the Sun–Liu alliance and sent his general Lü Meng to conquer Liu Bei’s territories in Jing Province. By the time Guan Yu found out about the loss of Jing Province after his defeat at Fancheng, it was too late. He was subsequently captured in an ambush by Sun Quan’s forces and executed.[2]

Guan Yu’s life was lionised and his achievements glorified to such an extent after his death that he was deified during the Sui dynasty. Through generations of storytelling, culminating in the 14th-century historical novel Romance of the Three Kingdoms, his deeds and moral qualities have been given immense emphasis, making Guan Yu one of East Asia’s most popular paradigms of loyalty and righteousness. He is still worshipped by many Chinese people today. In religious devotion he is reverentially called the “Emperor Guan” (Guān Dì) or “Lord Guan” (Guān Gōng). He is a deity worshiped in Chinese folk religion, popular Confucianism, Taoism, and Chinese Buddhism.

In Chinese religion
Cart for Shinto procession with Guan Yu statue from the Kanda Shrine, now preserved at the Edo-Tokyo Museum.

In Chinese folk religion, Guan Yu is widely referred to as “Emperor Guan” (關帝; Guāndì; dì implies deified status) and “Lord Guan” (關公; Guān Gōng), while his Taoist title is “Holy Emperor Lord Guan” (關聖帝君; Guān Shèng Dì Jūn). Martial temples and shrines dedicated exclusively to Guan Yu can be found across mainland China, Hong Kong, Macau, Taiwan, and other places with Chinese influence such as Vietnam, South Korea and Japan.

Deified Caesars were military leaders.

Was the Son of Man sufficiently established as a military leader?

Who was the hero of the War Scroll?

In the first century, did the Son of Man scare any empires, kindgoms, principalities?

Was the Son of Man really a threat to the Roman Empire or even just the Roman Empire in Israel?

No, he wasn’t.

In Wars of the Jews, there is a reference to the Son of Man returning to defeat the Roman Empire?
No.

Avatar
Steefen
7792 Posts
(Offline)
2
April 17, 2023 - 11:32 pm

keywords=Romance+of+the+three+kingdoms&qid=1681788616&sprefix=romance+of+the+three+kingdoms+%2Caps%2C91&sr=8-1

was supposed to be Penguin Edition

The Romance of the Three Kingdoms Paperback – September 11, 2018
by Luo Guanzhong (Author), Martin Palmer (Translator)
4.6 out of 5 stars 525 ratings

Avatar
Steefen
7792 Posts
(Offline)
3
April 20, 2023 - 9:06 pm

Was the Son of Man sufficiently established as a military leader?

In the first century, did the Son of Man scare any empires, kindgoms, principalities?

Was the Son of Man really a threat to the Roman Empire or even just the Roman Empire in Israel?

No, he wasn’t.

= = =

Reply

Paul did not prepare his followers for the Son of Man coming in all his glory before some (standing in the presence of the biblical Jesus) tasted death.

Jesus’ main apostle to the Gentiles did not establish the coming of the Son of Man on clouds.

Avatar
Stephen
4606 Posts
(Offline)
4
April 20, 2023 - 10:59 pm

The Romance of the Three kingdoms is the War and Peace of Chinese literature but you would be better advised to read one of the three volume versions. The Penguin version is an abridgment for Western readers with an abbreviated attention span I guess. My opinion is that if you’re not going to read the whole thing why read it at all?

Forum Timezone: America/Indiana/Indianapolis
All RSSShow Stats
Administrators:
BDEhrman
FreedomBen
evgendob
Robert
Top Posters:
Steefen: 7791
Stephen: 4606
Porphyry: 1852
godspell: 1827
DavidFord: 1430
BJH1960: 1208
brenmcg: 1184
Colin Milton: 1142
JAS: 948
Jarek: 936
Newest Members:
iamevenbao
admin
SRB
Auntiejack56
giventerry
brokinrhythm
Thurly
dsorrent7
iam.vernon.b.rose
israelam
Forum Stats:
Groups: 2
Forums: 13
Topics: 2617
Posts: 46495

 

Member Stats:
Guest Posters: 65
Members: 65926
Moderators: 0
Admins: 4
Most Users Ever Online: 3559
Currently Online: Judith, 1stadam1stantiochian
Guest(s) 25