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King David got away with anything he pleased, Jesus did not. Why? Same God. Yes?
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Steefen
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February 23, 2020 - 8:02 pm

King David got away with anything he pleased, Jesus did not.
Why? What is the lesson here?

Same God.

Yes?

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Stephen
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February 23, 2020 - 8:33 pm

Steefen said
King David got away with anything he pleased, Jesus did not.
Why? What is the lesson here?
Same God.
Yes?  

I don’t think David (the literary character) got away with anything.  But no I don’t think David and Jesus had the same god.

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Steefen
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February 24, 2020 - 4:31 pm

What kind of literary character was King David?

He was a character of historical fiction. He was NOT 100% literary character from imagination.

Basically, the answer lies in the Upper Kingdom – Lower Kingdom – United Kingdom dynamics AND the extent to which Egypt exerted its influence in Canaan and Syria AND what became of the Hyksos after they were incompletely pushed out of the Delta.

The answer also lies in the Israelites washing their hands of their ties to a) Saul writing letters to Amen-ophis III and Amen-ophis IV, b) David being a Lower Kingdom pharaoh, c) Solomon being a Lower Kingdom pharaoh, and d) as the Bible claims Solomon was so rich and so wise, what was his foreign diplomacy really like, given Egyptian history of dominance in the Judea and Israel of that time.

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godspell

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February 24, 2020 - 7:27 pm

Okay, do you want a serious answer to your silly question?

Whether you believe David was real or not (consensus is there was a real person the story was based on, but the David we have in the bible may not be any closer to reality than the Arthurian legends) he’s an earthly king. The story being told is about a flawed ambitious man who was chosen to rule by God, was corrupted by power, and he often falls short and needs to be chastised–remember who wrote the OT–not the ruling class.  

David is punished for his sins.  His son Absalom rebels against him and is killed, because of what David did to get Bathsheba, and David is grief-stricken.  He doesn’t get away with everything.  There is a strong sense that he would have been happier remaining a shepherd up in the hills.  It’s a story about how being the king isn’t so great after all, but somebody has to do it, and in the end, you should recognize the only real king is Yahweh.  

Jesus isn’t trying to ‘get away’ with anything.  He is depicted as being without sin, though it’s implied in Mark that he was a sinner before his baptism by John.  All four gospels say it’s part of God’s plan for him to be crucified.  But more to the point, Jesus was born a commoner, in spite of his alleged descent from David’s line.  So it’s a silly comparison to make, since Jesus is only trying to ‘get away’ with talking to people about his beliefs, healing them of various ailments, and raising two people from the dead.   He’s crucified for allegedly claiming he’s King of the Jews, but David actually was King of the Jews, anointed by God’s prophet.  God has different plans for the two of them.

As to whether it’s the same God, that’s an argument I get bored with very quickly.  Far as I’m concerned, Jews, Christians and Muslims all believe in the OT, so it’s the same God viewed through different lenses.   

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Steefen
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February 25, 2020 - 12:33 pm

god misspelled said

A
David is punished for his sins.  His son Absalom rebels against him and is killed, because of what David did to get Bathsheba, and David is grief-stricken.  He doesn’t get away with everything.  

B
Jesus isn’t trying to ‘get away’ with anything.  He is depicted as being without sin, though it’s implied in Mark that he was a sinner before his baptism by John.  

C
As to whether it’s the same God …, Jews, Christians and Muslims all believe in the OT, so it’s the same God viewed through different lenses.     

Steefen

A.
One of David’s sins is taking a census.

God gave David a choice of three punishments for his sin—three years of famine, three months of fleeing before his enemies, or three days of plague. David chose the third, and the Lord then punished Israel with a plague that killed 70,000 men from Dan in the north to Beersheba in the south.

** you do not have permission to see this link **

Another one of his sins is killing his son Abasalom and taking his son’s wife (Absalom = Father of Solomon, although Bathsheba’s child from the affair died–God’s punishment).

Punishment for David: 70,000 men killed and 1 baby killed, but God can take away the kingship from Saul.

God mis-spelled’s silly 1-star or no-star answer: David cries (grief-stricken). Some punishment you’ve got there. We wait for sentencing and the sentence is a few days of grief.

B.
Jesus gets away with at least one grave crime and sin.

Rightfully or wrongly, Jesus turned away from the God of Abraham and led people astray, requesting he be remembered with a new Passover meal of his body and blood, a destructive stance against God and the Jewish religion (relationship between Hebrew God and worshippers).

* * * Genesis 9: 4

But you must not eat meat with its lifeblood still in it.

* * * Psalms 27: 8 and Leviticus 17: 10-11

When You said, “Seek my face,” my heart said unto You, “Your face, Lord, I will seek.”

   Any Israelite or any alien living among them who eats any blood—I will set My face against that person who eats blood and will cut him off from his people. I have given the blood to you to make atonement for yourselves on the altar…

* * * Deuteronomy 12: 15-16

But whenever you wish, you may slaughter and eat meat within any of your gates, according to the blessing the LORD your God has given you. Those who are clean or unclean may eat it, as they would a gazelle or deer, but you must not eat the blood; pour it on the ground like water.

* * * Deuteronomy 28: 53-55

53During the siege and hardship that your enemy will impose on you, you will eat the fruit of your womb, the flesh of the sons and daughters whom the LORD your God has given you. 54The most gentle and refined man among you will begrudge his brother, the wife he embraces, and the rest of his children who have survived, 55refusing to share with any of them the flesh of his children that he will eat because he has nothing left in the siege and hardship your enemy will impose on all your cities

* * * 1 Samuel 14: 32-33

So they rushed greedily to the plunder, taking sheep, cattle, and calves. They slaughtered them on the ground and ate meat with the blood still in it. Then someone reported to Saul: “Look, the troops are sinning against the LORD by eating meat with the blood still in it.” …

* * * Jeremiah 19: 8-9

I will make this city a desolation and an object of scorn. All who pass by will be horrified, and will scoff because of all its wounds. I will make them eat the flesh of their sons and daughters, and they will eat one another’s flesh in the siege and distress inflicted on them by their enemies who seek their lives.’

* * * Lamentations 4: 9-11

Those slain by the sword are better off than those who die of hunger, who waste away, pierced with pain because the fields lack produce. 10The hands of compassionate women have cooked their own children, who became their food in the destruction of the daughter of my people. 11The LORD has exhausted His wrath; He has poured out His fierce anger; He has kindled a fire in Zion, and it has consumed her foundations.

* * * At Acts 15: 13, 20, “…James spoke…abstain… from blood.”

After All of the above Paul and Jesus DEFIANTLY said the following, knowing it was the theological and religious deal breaker, a sacrament of atheism and defeat.

* * * 1 Cor 11: 23-25, Luke 22: 19-20, Matthew 26: 26-29, Mark 14: 22-25

The Lord Jesus took bread and when he had given thanks, he broke it and said This is my body which is for you , do this in remembrance of me. In the same way, after supper, he took the cup, saying, “This cup is the new covenent IN MY BLOOD, do this whenever you drink it in remembrance of me.”

* * * John 6: 51-66

Live forever by eating the bread which is my flesh.

Then the Jews began to argue sharply among themselves, “How can this man give us his flesh to eat?”

Jesus said to them, I tell you the truth, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man AND drink his blood, you have no life in you.

Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life and I will raise him up at the last day.

My flesh is real food [not metaphorical food] and my blood is real drink [not metaphorical drink].

Disciples said: This is hard teaching. Who can accept this?

Jesus said to them, “Does this offend you?”

From this time, many of his disciples turned back and no longer followed him.

= = =

Jesus’ rejection of God contaminates Christianity unless that his how Jesus saved us: Saved us from a God who did not help the Jews win the Battle of Galilee during the Jewish Revolt and from a God who did not help stop the destruction of Herod’s Temple.

= = =

Asking and insisting to be remembered alongside the Jewish Revolt’s Cannibal Mary who ate half of her son and gave her son (the other half) is NOT Islamic, Shalom. It is not Islamic, Shalom.

The real Matthews, Marks, Lukes, Johns, and Paul/s lived after the Jewish Revolt.
Jewish Wars by Josephus, Book 6:

  1. There was a certain woman that dwelt beyond Jordan, her name was Mary…

Come on, enough sucking my breast; be my food, and you be to these seditious, unprincipled and dishonest men a fury, a spirit of punishment, torture with stings of conscience, THE GUILTY who put us in this Great Tribulation. Son of Mary [biblical Jesus/New Testament Jesus], my son, be a byword: a person, a thing, cited to the world as a notorious example of our destruction.

Complete these calamities of us Jews. [Yes, the Testimonium Flavianum’s very next line is that the TF is a calamity followed by another calamity.]

  1. As soon as she had said this, she cut her son. He died. She put him on a fire not in a makeshift cremation but she roasted him. She ate half of him. She kept the other half concealed.

Those of the sedition came. They threatened her that her throat would be cut if she did not show them what food she had gotten ready.

She replied that she had saved a very fine portion of it for them and uncovered what was left of her son [Jesus of Paul, Mark, Matthew, Luke, and John].

This WAS the body and blood of Jesus, not a metaphor, not transubstantiation.

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Steefen
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February 25, 2020 - 12:41 pm

god misspelled

C
As to whether it’s the same God …, Jews, Christians and Muslims all believe in the OT, so it’s the same God viewed through different lenses.

Steefen

The Hebrew Bible / Old Testament contains King David and King Solomon. These two kings were Egyptian Lower Kingdom pharaohs. Anyone can look at the 23rd Psalm and the Book of Proverbs and see both of these books contain Egyptian content. There is more evidence, such as the materials manager for the building of Solomon’s Temple is the SAME materials manager for the building of the Egyptian Temple of a Million Years. The god of pharaohs are not the same god as the god in the Old and New Testaments: Hebrew Bible and New Testament.

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Stephen
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February 25, 2020 - 1:56 pm

god misspelled.  I like it!

Yahweh was certainly a badass.  If he killed 70,000 people in a three day plague imagine how many he would have slaughtered in a three year famine?  And of course David wasn’t going to pick a military setback.

Jesus’ rejection of God contaminates Christianity unless that his how Jesus saved us: Saved us from a God who did not help the Jews win the Battle of Galilee during the Jewish Revolt and from a God who did not help stop the destruction of Herod’s Temple.

Steefen I tip my Borsalino to you sir.  You live in a much funkier world than the rest of us.

A serious question.  What do you think of so-called “entheogens”, hallucinogenic substances as an aid to experience of the divine?

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godspell

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February 25, 2020 - 2:25 pm

Steefen said
god misspelled

C
As to whether it’s the same God …, Jews, Christians and Muslims all believe in the OT, so it’s the same God viewed through different lenses.
Steefen
The Hebrew Bible / Old Testament contains King David and King Solomon. These two kings were Egyptian Lower Kingdom pharaohs. Anyone can look at the 23rd Psalm and the Book of Proverbs and see both of these books contain Egyptian content. There is more evidence, such as the materials manager for the building of Solomon’s Temple is the SAME materials manager for the building of the Egyptian Temple of a Million Years. The god of pharaohs are not the same god as the god in the Old and New Testaments: Hebrew Bible and New Testament.  

Stiffen:

I’m sure you believe you just made a point, but for the life of me, I don’t know what it is. 

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godspell

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February 25, 2020 - 2:26 pm

Stephen said
god misspelled.  I like it!

Yahweh was certainly a badass.  If he killed 70,000 people in a three day plague imagine how many he would have slaughtered in a three year famine?  And of course David wasn’t going to pick a military setback.

Jesus’ rejection of God contaminates Christianity unless that his how Jesus saved us: Saved us from a God who did not help the Jews win the Battle of Galilee during the Jewish Revolt and from a God who did not help stop the destruction of Herod’s Temple.

Steefen I tip my Borsalino to you sir.  You live in a much funkier world than the rest of us.

A serious question.  What do you think of so-called “entheogens”, hallucinogenic substances as an aid to experience of the divine?  

I am so happy to have aided in your rapprochement with your other-dimensional self.  And the more interesting of the two. 😐

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Stephen
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February 25, 2020 - 4:00 pm

I am so happy to have aided in your rapprochement with your other-dimensional self.  And the more interesting of the two.

I’m sure you believe you just made a point, but for the life of me, I don’t know what it is. 

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godspell

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February 25, 2020 - 4:38 pm

** you do not have permission to see this link **

🙂

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Stephen
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February 25, 2020 - 9:07 pm

godspell said
** you do not have permission to see this link **

🙂  

Yes thank you godspell.  I know what rapprochement means.  Français’est une de mes autres langues. I suppose I was wondering about my “other dimensional self”. 

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godspell

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February 25, 2020 - 9:23 pm

We all wonder about Steefen.  

You, otoh, are rather prosaic.  

But good with the straight lines.  😉

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Steefen
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February 26, 2020 - 3:20 pm

Stephen said

A serious question.  What do you think of so-called “entheogens”, hallucinogenic substances as an aid to experience of the divine?  

Google the question: “What are entheogens?

Result:
a chemical substance, typically of plant origin, that is ingested to produce a nonordinary state of consciousness for religious or spiritual purposes.

= = =

I saw that movie with William Hurt. What was it? Altered States (1980). I think I saw it twice because I wanted someone else to see it, too.

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godspell

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February 26, 2020 - 3:49 pm

I just wanted to see Blair Brown naked.  😐

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Stephen
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February 26, 2020 - 5:31 pm

Steefen said

Google the question: “What are entheogens?
Result:
a chemical substance, typically of plant origin, that is ingested to produce a nonordinary state of consciousness for religious or spiritual purposes.

Yes I knew the word.  I was asking your opinion of the subject. Thoughts?

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godspell

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February 26, 2020 - 6:54 pm

I think you have achieved the high distinction of making a thread started by Steefen even nuttier than it was already.

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Stephen
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February 27, 2020 - 9:10 am

godspell said
I think you have achieved the high distinction of making a thread started by Steefen even nuttier than it was already.  

Both nutty and prosaic.  A rare achievement indeed!

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godspell

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February 27, 2020 - 9:20 am

I wish that were true.  But the internet tells me otherwise.  So many Stephens out there.  And Steefens. 

Now Jesus’s–those are rare. 

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Steefen
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February 27, 2020 - 4:45 pm

Stephen said

Steefen said
Google the question: “What are entheogens?
Result:
a chemical substance, typically of plant origin, that is ingested to produce a nonordinary state of consciousness for religious or spiritual purposes.

Yes I knew the word.  I was asking your opinion of the subject. Thoughts?  

That was my opinion on the subject: 1) I looked up the word and 2) I told you I saw the movie Altered States.

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