Religious experience can involve emotion, but for me it usually did not. It seemed more profound than mere emotion.

Yes, I agree but “emotionalism” was the only way my community could conceptualize it.  They had no access to the language of mysticism.   It was interesting (and more than little disconcerting) to have had such experiences spontaneously and only much later find out that there existed a grammar for it.   A grammar built up in traditions I had been encouraged to view as “other”.   

I’ve written before about my aborted time at the seminary, highlighted mostly by being part of an unofficial seminar conducted by Prof Glenn Hinson, who invited some of his students over to his house to be guided through the history of western mysticism.   I’m sure he was perfectly aware at how suspect this would have been in most of the churches out of which these students came.  I deeply regret not being able to get to know Hinson more personally.  Although he never discussed it explicitly there were hints of a profound, deeply personal spiritual practice behind his teaching.   But circumstances made such a relationship impossible.  Strange to look back.   The path I took was only one of many possible paths.  But the course of our life is always mysterious in retrospect, is it not?  

I never had “that” conversation with my parents.  They knew something had changed but I guess they figured what they didn’t know couldn’t hurt them.  I didn’t speak because I knew if I told them what I really thought they would never have gotten another night’s sleep for the rest of their lives.  They believed.   The result was decades of an awful silence.  Oh, we loved each other.  We communicated.  But we couldn’t talk.  I was really only able to reconnect with my father in the space we carved out of our mutual grief at the death of my brother and mother, both in 2011.  Terrible year.  

>>> What we need is not meaning but experience.

>> What’s wrong with creating our own meaning?

That strikes me as a weird distinction to draw. I think what we crave is a *sense* of meaning, the *experience* of having meaning. 

What I’m saying is that when people talk about finding “meaning” I think what they’re searching for is the experience of being alive.   Life is not meaningless so much as transcendent of meaning.  What does a rain shower “mean”?  Or having a child?  What is available to us is the experience of rain drops slapping on leaves and the experience of having and raising a child.  There is no inherent meaning provided.  We make of these experiences what we will.  

As Wittgenstein pointed out, playing the game is its “meaning”.  Experiencing life is its “meaning”.  We build a bridge while crossing it.  The god’s eye perspective, by which we can stand apart and contemplate the process entire, is simply not available to us.   

The discussions continue.  What does being a Christian mean now?  The “conservative”, fundamentalist approach seems to be fast breaking down.   Its political bent of late now seems more a sign of weakness than strength.  Is there another way forward?  The first video features two self-identified ex-Christians trying to make sense of the whole thing.

What is faith?

What does it mean to be truly spiritual?

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Of course any video like this issued by modern critics of Christianity will result in divers responses.  Here are a couple of the best ones by believers who aren’t fundamentalists.  (The fundamentalist responses are fairly predictable.) 

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This guy provides the most thoughtful response I think.  I wasn’t aware of him until his channel came up when I watched the first one.  I will add his to my small list of channels to check in with occasionally. 

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Gavin is more of a confrontational pushback apologist but he’s well educated and not stupid so he can appreciate criticism better than many of his peers. 

Now, it would be surprising if Your Humble Correspondent didn’t have something to say.  If these videos engender any kind of discussion hereabouts I’ll be glad to expand but for now just some initial thoughts.  Questions really. 

The “solution” to the modern dilemma offered seems to encourage a movement away from public forms of worship and spirituality to more private expressions.  Inner spirituality.  My original question in this thread remains.  Can Christianity survive, not to say flourish, if it focuses primarily on private forms of religious expression? Can Christianity survive if it is not privileged by society in some way?  (To this latter question the so-called “Christian Nationalists” would seem to say, no!) 

The problem here I see is that for most believers in the US Christianity seems to have little if any private form of expression.  Oh, if you’re well-read and educated, if you know who Kierkegaard was, this will seem strange but to most Americans there is only the public expression of spirituality.   If it’s not dominating the social discourse then it doesn’t really exist.   Sure, people still pray.  And they might even read the Bible a little bit.  But that’s not really what we’re talking about.   So… this “solution” might be simply unworkable. 

Secondly, Christianity has always adapted itself to culture.  It shapes but is also shaped by it.  First, it adapted itself to the lack of an imminent Parousia.  Later, the Church adapted to cultural and political domination rather than persecution.  Since the days of the Enlightenment it has adapted itself to modern concerns about the autonomy of the individual and a concern for secular values.  (The cynic might say that first, the church opposes it; then it tolerates it; and then it takes credit for it.)   Buuut…might there be cultural changes to which it cannot adapt itself?   Might this be such a time and such a culture?  

Finally, all the videos above reference at some point what is perceived to be some sort of nascent religious enthusiasm detected among the so-called Generation Z.  The ever dependable ReligionForBreakfast site breaks it down (both literally and figuratively).

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Robert said
Interesting that C.J. Cornthwaite identifies as agnostic. 
  

As odd as it might seem I have seriously thought about trying to find a church community.  But it would only be for the sake of community.  To meet people.  There is a United Methodist Church not far from me.  Their pastor is of the female persuasion.  The denomination is on the tolerable side of most social issues.  But would it be fair to them?  I have no interest in their theological positions.   Eventually I would be asked and I would have to be honest about it.  

Of course, realistically, isn’t that why most people go to church?  For the community?  I am self-aware enough to realize that it might just be a way of trying to recapture the close-knit loving community of my youth.   I spent a lot of years trying to replace it.  Some places though if you’re not born into you are forever barred from entry.  Oh, you can join.  Not the same thing. 

…join the choir whether you can really sing or not.

I have a virtuoso shower singer’s voice!   Musicians attract the most interesting women, and have the best parties.  Ha!   

This was the Christianity that I grew up with and then for many years thought I would foster. Nostalgia.

Robert, if you’re willing I would be really curious to hear more about your experience.  By the time I actually encountered people with this approach I was mostly out of it.  It’s hard for me to see it now as much more than a waystation on the journey out to the territories.   I do sympathize with folks who love the faith so much that they can’t bare to part with it. 

Robert said

…I’m traveling this week for a wedding so it will be a while before I can spend enough time for a thoughtful response.  

I’m delighted to report I’m attending a wedding this week myself. Hooray for us! Infinitely preferable to the funerals I’ve been attending. Just last week I attended the funeral of a childhood friend from my church days.