So Jesus and Hitler agreed that organized religion was not the way to go? 😛
Ok, so I fell for the trap of Atheist vs Theist once again. Or I set it. I forget which. That was not what this post was intended to be about. I even envisioned a second post as I was writing this one. Actually, I thought about the second post first, than thought this prequel might be a good warm up while I investigated further on the subject.
This was supposed to be about intentions. Almost all sides (there are more than two) intend to improve the world by improving the lives of children, but completely disagree with how to do that. But it seems clear to me that most people have good intent to teach the children for the benefit of those children, whether fundamentalist or not. And at least atheist and perhaps a range of different sets of believers think for sure fundamentalists and perhaps a range of different sets of believers are spreading misinformation, often called lies.
The second post was to be Lies, Lies, Lies and Pseudepigrapha. I am fascinated by lying and its various forms and various effects. Some people are simply revolted by any untruth. They will call out a liar and try to shame them into no longer being a liar. But some people seem to be natural born liars. And some of these people are very good storytellers as well. In my experience, the best storytellers I know tend to tell a (fib, embellishment, twisted version) of reality.
I simply cannot get a handle on the complex issues of liars, especially pathological ones, to do the post though. Most of what I look up seems to be about detecting lies or versions of thou shalt not bear false witness. What is really interesting to me is the variety of liars and what they lie about.
If someone lies about what Jesus or Paul said, for the betterment of society, its still a lie. But is it a beautiful lie?
You voted for a pathological liar, and you knew you were doing it. Innumerable people have been harmed by that choice, and Democracy has been weakened everywhere.
Is the problem that you can’t get a handle on that, or that you don’t want to?
Hitler believed in an absolutist state based around his image (he didn’t have much in the way of coherent ideas), that would last for at least a thousand years. And when it became obvious to him that it wouldn’t even last twenty, he gave orders to kill his own people for failing him. He insisted his inner circle commit suicide with him (whether they wanted to or not). He did not exclude children from these orders. He wanted them to die too.
We can know a lot less about Jesus, but there are indications he chose to die instead of his followers, and that he eschewed all physical violence. He thought only God could judge humanity, and he knew he wasn’t God.
But a narcissist, like Hitler–or Trump–looks in the mirror and sees his God smiling back at him.
What do you see?
For that type of personality, it’s never about the children. And their cries fall on deaf ears.
Yes. As citizens of the USA, we have to think (or choose to ignore) the repercussions of our actions. I think non-interventionists do a far better job of this than the mainstream who think that the USA has the answers for everyone.
I am glad I voted Obama over McCain. At the time, it was the choice of invading Iran or “A New Hope.” I chose the new hope. Circumstances since 2008 have only served to further consolidate my belief that McCain most definitely would have invaded Iran, killing hundreds of thousands and leaving millions in a lawless land where the weak are victimized by the strong. That is what US intervention tends to do, even in sanctions. I do believe mistakes under Obama led to the rise of ISIS. Not by getting troops out of Iraq (a move that was actually a continuation of what Bush started before leaving office.) Rather by believing US intervention, by pushing our allies to put guns in the fight, was the answer in Syria.
Even as I regret voting for Trump for so many reasons, I am not sure Clinton would have made the world a safer place either. I remain sure in my assessment of our purpose in eastern Syria – to destabilize our enemies. As far as immigration is concerned, I am not for locking children in cages. I do not justify it as a necessary evil. I am not justifying those actions at all. I will, however point out that Obama did do the same thing on a smaller scale. I dislike Obama’s wavering on what America stands for in this area as well as his wavering on Gitmo. But when “A New Hope” gets into the White House, he is surrounded by intellectuals who have operated there for a long time, and I think it changed him a little. I hear that he fought the change, but usually acquiesced to the experts.
Another quick anecdote of supposedly Trump’s immigration meanness. A friend of mine, in the weeks between the election and inauguration, blasted me for voting for Trump because his aunt had been picked up and sent back to Peru. I mentioned to him that he should be angry at Obama. Trump was not yet in power. So I have two takeaways about the media and Trump’s immigration policies. 1) They see what they want to see, blaming Trump for doing the same things other administrations did. 2) I am very glad the media has decided to at least beat up on conservatives on immigration, though the Dems really are just as bad and the media might even move the needle if they beat up on Dems just a teensy bit!
The Dems had a huge opportunity to change immigration policy, or to at least pry a wedge between Trump and his Senate flock when they stopped the government over border wall funding. I know the Trump changed the number that the Republican House gave him before they left office in 2018, and picked the fight with Dems. The Dems could have at least led with a counterproposal solution that included a measly 5 billion for a wall in exchange for real life solutions for people being held hostage by DACA, and perhaps increased funding for legal immigration. Those would have been easily swallowed by Republican voters, who do not hate immigrants as much as they do lawlessness and thus illegal immigrants. (Its when we talk about the psyche of the voters that I think Trump is a secret genius, but his communication skills leave me thinking perhaps it is just a vicious con man, lacking reasoning skills. Then again, the book smart types tend to glamorize street smarts sometimes.)
In no way am I justifying American immigration policy. I think its naïve to blame Trump for it though.
Alas, neither Obama nor Pelosi have reached out to me for advice on how to handle these things.
As far as democracy being weakened everywhere. That is a tough pill to swallow. The fact is American President have been taking more and more power, essentially being given a free hand to attack and provoke war at any time they so choose, and this has been going on for decades. If anything the strong dislike for Trump has awakened America to the ridiculous power of the Presidency in this day and time. Gitmo is a shining example of the power of the President to change American values. I would like to think America will stay awake to this danger, but I seriously doubt anyone will care once Trump is out of office. The President’s power will once again simply be something we hear about on the nightly news after he exercises it. We need changes.
I do think Russian misinformation is a danger to America. But it works hand in hand with the likes of Breitbart being copied and pasted throughout FB, Instagram, and the like. We do have serious challenges in recognizing information from propaganda – of finding truth. That is why I am fascinated by lies, present and ancient.
And that’s why you voted for the biggest liar on the planet?
It’s getting hard to keep up.
** you do not have permission to see this link **
I think what you don’t want to deal with is that you voted for precisely what you claim you hate. You had an exaggerated idea of how bad our government was, so to get even, you made it a hundred times worse. And you’re too shallow to come to terms with that. Your view is only focused on your own ego–narcissists voting for narcissists.
Which makes it very hard to take you seriously. And obviously you’re not going to do any real reading, because you might learn something you don’t want to know.
Finish up, and we’re done here.
And you can go on voting for little children to be locked in cages.
Some people voted for Trump for the same reason why FDR and Churchill allied their nations with Stalin’s USSR during World War 2: the lessor of two evils. Now, one can argue that Trump was more evil than Hillary Clinton. Fine. But people don’t always vote for someone. Often they vote against someone. I didn’t vote for either Trump or Clinton. But I understand the hostility to both.
I really am beginning to think everyone who posts to this forum is insane.
Including me, for sticking around. But I won’t much longer.
Google “But her emails meme” and you’ll have my response. Saves time.
It really is a shame, you know. That Jesus was wrong about Gehenna. Maybe he just got the timeline wrong? We can but hope (Like I wouldn’t be there with you.)
Of course his lying was a factor in the decision. But his ranting over the stupidity of war long preceded any attempt at running for office. It lasted through Bush’s regimes and Obama’s regime. It seemed genuine.
That is what this post is about. Lying.
Lets be fair though. Hilary used noise machines outside of some of her swanky fundraisers. But that is just me try to be fair about liars. She is a politician.
To be honest, I think Hilary has been a great asset for America. Its the demonization of her by the right that was a factor in my decision. With the gridlock of the last 6 years of Obama’s tenure, I could not see how Hilary could be effective. Actually, demonization might not be the correct word. I think the right has made Hilary a god. Perhaps a god of the underworld, but they blame things on her that indicate they feel she is the most powerful being in the world today!
I have enjoyed the back and forth. I cannot understand your threats to leave. Are you exasperated that millions of fellow Americans were so dissatisfied with the status quo that they took a chance on Trump? For many Clinton, and now Biden, represented the bank friendly governance that has seen CEO pay multiply and worker pay fall when inflation is taken into account. Americans often tend to vote outsider and often tend to change party.
At any rate, I felt I could see through the lies. Trump was non interventionists. I doubted his promises to send more troops to Syria and blow things up, chalking it up to pandering to the “deplorables” (Hilary did not mean me when she said that.)
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