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Marcion, Valentinus in Rome AD 140
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Jarek

936 Posts
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1
June 30, 2022 - 5:08 pm

JAS said

If Marcion did not write anything, how did he show this way? Why should we care what Marcion might have thought? How would we know what he thought?

 

Unfortunately I missed this JAS comment for which I apologize.
JAS’s comment clearly indicates that I cannot find the right argument for Marion’s reconstruction.
So another version.
Various Christian sects clash in Rome. They fight for the most important territory in the Empire in terms of politics, finances and population density. In Rome, the fate of various religions of the Empire was decided: here it was decided about official persecution, here it was decided to admit the cult to religious activities, here the cults which reached a certain critical mass and acted in the interests of the Empire were promoted. These historical stages are common to  Serapis, Dionysus, Isis,… Permanent practice of the administration of the Empire – persecution, admission to public activity, elevation and joint – promotion. Of course, for those who have achieved market success.
Various Christians attack Rome at an early stage, when religion is secretly professed and there are already problems with market competition. First of all, they all sell Jesus, but in different versions, the seriousness of the product and the sellers suffers. And a compromise is needed on how to share this Rome.
Various leaders go to Rome and conduct several years of product and management negotiations. There is also the ascetic Marcion, who throws 200,000 sesterces of the Roman commune as an incentive.
What do the gathered decide? About collective management, about the method of counting the authorized votes, about common theology.
No one is excluded for theological views, and Valentinus is even a candidate for Bishop of Rome. Loses. He becomes a heretic. Marcion, after a few years of playing as part of this society, also sees that he will not achieve the intended goals and leaves. And he also becomes a heretic but level MaxTurbo. Why? Because his organization has achieved a positive EBITDA, is financially independent and can independently carry out costly but effective missionary action. In their criticism, Marcion’s opponents resort to the methods adopted by the NKVD in the Stalinist trials. Independent and effective, Marcion is a deadly threat to them.

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TTHorne56

172 Posts
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June 30, 2022 - 6:28 pm

No anachronistic concepts here.  Nope, not a single one.

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Jarek

936 Posts
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July 1, 2022 - 3:01 am

TTHorne56 said
No anachronistic concepts here.  Nope, not a single one.

  

That’s right. Not a single one.

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Steefen
7792 Posts
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July 1, 2022 - 1:21 pm

here it was decided to admit the cult to religious activities, here the cults which reached a certain critical mass and acted in the interests of the Empire were promoted.

Steefen
The Jewish, Greco-Roman gospels also were subject to that.

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Jarek

936 Posts
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5
July 1, 2022 - 3:04 pm

Steefen said
here it was decided to admit the cult to religious activities, here the cults which reached a certain critical mass and acted in the interests of the Empire were promoted.

Steefen

The Jewish, Greco-Roman gospels also were subject to that.

  

A bit like communists. They called on the tsar to ensure democracy, freedom of expression, free media, free elections, and political freedoms. And then they introduced the so-called “people’s democracy” that we experienced until 1989. So the Christians were pro-Roman because they were actually anti-Roman.

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Jarek

936 Posts
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July 1, 2022 - 3:59 pm

It is Ebitda that seems worthy of interest. Newly recruited believers receive a strong message that promotes asceticism, renunciation of material goods, giving up offspring, chastity, etc .. All for the good of the project. Of course, the example comes from above. The only real issue is the cause of the conflicts constantly recurring – Who is in charge?

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Stephen
4606 Posts
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7
July 1, 2022 - 10:06 pm

Who is in charge?

Ok I admit it.  I’m in charge.  I have no plan.  My judgements arbitrary.  My decisions whims.  I will die but when that happens the entire universe will be snuffed out as well.  So treat me right.

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JAS

948 Posts
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8
July 1, 2022 - 10:09 pm

Has someone been hitting the cooking sherry a bit too hard again?

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Jarek

936 Posts
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9
July 1, 2022 - 11:03 pm

Stephen said
Who is in charge?

Ok I admit it.  I’m in charge.  I have no plan.  My judgements arbitrary.  My decisions whims.  I will die but when that happens the entire universe will be snuffed out as well.  So treat me right.

  

Very good. Just like that. Feel into a new role, forget who you are. A perfect start, I must admit

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Jarek

936 Posts
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10
July 1, 2022 - 11:10 pm

JAS said
Has someone been hitting the cooking sherry a bit too hard again?

  

The problem with Sherry is that your stomach gets sick before you get drunk. You are sober and sick. No fun at all.

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Stephen
4606 Posts
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11
July 2, 2022 - 12:11 am

Shouldn’t that be absinthe? Followed by a taste of the banj ?  

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Jarek

936 Posts
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12
July 2, 2022 - 2:06 am

Stephen said
Shouldn’t that be absinthe? Followed by a taste of the banj ?  

  

I am impressed. Right question. At last. Absinth is for poets. You need a  glass of vodka and a big mirror. Repeat: I am Big Boss The Winner. It is God’s will. Admit or die. Drink vodka. Repeat. After 3 sessions You will be Ready. Glass will be empty in one shoot. No mirror no words needed.

 

.

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JAS

948 Posts
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July 2, 2022 - 7:50 am

Stephen said
Shouldn’t that be absinthe? Followed by a taste of the banj ?  

  

The green fairy only leads people into madness. (Maybe the more modern form, usually without the secret ingredient of the old form, does less damage.) I do not drink, and never have, so I am not the expert on the subject other than I have complete objectivity about how others behave under the influence of alcohol and nothing of my own about which to be defensive in that regard.

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Robert
7123 Posts
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14
July 2, 2022 - 7:53 am
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Jarek

936 Posts
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July 2, 2022 - 11:04 am

Robert said
Rach, ciach, ciach, babkę w piach.

  

Yes!

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JAS

948 Posts
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16
July 2, 2022 - 12:28 pm

Robert said
Rach, ciach, ciach, babkę w piach.

  

Klaatu barada nikto

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2380

61 Posts
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17
July 7, 2022 - 9:38 am

The smoker you drink the player you get.

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