Josephus writes about Decius Mundus (Sacrifice for the World) in Antiquities (passage following the TF), 93 CE.
1 Jn (with a savior of the world verse, 4:14) was written probably between 95 and 110 CE.
The Gospel of John (for God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son — also a sacrifice for the world verse, 3:16) was probably written between 90 and 100 CE.
Question: Is there another verse in the gospels or in the New Testament that tells us with some specificity that Jesus is a world savior/sacrifice?
Thank you,
Steve Campbell, author of Historical Accuracy
Decius was known for sacrifice. There were two sacrifices: the father, Decius Mus and the son, Decius Mus.
For the former, see
Loeb Classical Library. Livy, translated by B. O. Foster, Volume IV, History of Rome, Books 8-10,
Book 8, Section VI and Sections VIII, Line 19 – Section X, ps 21 and 35-43.
45 years later, 295 B.C.E., Decius Mus the son sacrificed himself.
Loeb Classical Library. Livy, translated by B. O. Foster, Volume IV, History of Rome, Books 8-10,
Book X, Sections 27-29, ps 463-475.
Both Roman father and son died as atonement for a victory. In the writings of Paul, Jesus also died as atonement for a victory.
But thanks be to God! He gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
1 Corinthians 15: 57
… we are more than conquerors…
Romans 8: 37
Historical Accuracy by Steve Campbell, pages 102-105
Bart D.E.
Re: How can Jesus be the savior of the world?
Answer: That is a theological question.
Re: Is there another verse in the gospels or in the New Testament that tells us with some specificity that Jesus is a world savior/sacrifice?
Answer: Acts Chapter 4, verse 12, most of the book of Revelation
Steefen
Salvation exists in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men [humankind: all humans in the world] by which we must be saved.
Steefen
Going from “I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel” to “world sacrifice/savior” dates after 90 C.E. (60 years after the biblical Jesus was crucified); so, a student would not find it originating with the Synoptic Gospels, the surviving disciples, or James.
We have it in 1 John, Gospel of John, Revelation (no later than 96 CE), Acts of the Apostles (usually dated no later than 90 CE).
A Jewish sacrifice for the lost sheep of the house of Israel (maybe-maybe not) is claimed to be a means to forgiveness of sins (it does not take place during Yom Kippur) and salvation for the current generation at 30 CE and future generations (without the expressed intent of the biblical Jesus).
giselebendor
the Jews never had a desire or a law to love their enemies. All the contrary.
Steefen
That goes back to Julius Caesar’s leadership style.
One way of ending his civil war was to reach out to his enemies who fought with Pompey the Great.
(Greco-Roman influence on the Jesus of the gospels)
Besides: eye for any eye makes the whole world blind – M. K. Gandhi
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Reply
In light of the idea that the concern for strangers and nobodies was a Judeo-Christian innovation, I’m curious what you make of the various formulations of the golden rule that were around before Jesus. Some examples I have in mind are Zoroaster’s “That which is good for all and any one, for whomsoever – that is good for me. What I hold good for self, I should for all. Only Law Universal, is true Law.” And Confucius: “Never impose on others what you would not choose for yourself.” Or as attributed to Laozi: “Regard your neighbor’s gain as your own gain, and your neighbor’s loss as your own loss.” One can find similar statements attributed to Thales and the Buddha as well.
Bart D.E.
I don’t think I would say that Jesus was the most ethical teacher in history, no. There were other Jewish teachers as well who thought that love should be universal, not restricted to the family, friend, neighbor, or tribe.
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p/u at alligator on blue background
giselebendor
the Jews never had a desire or a law to love their enemies. All the contrary.
Steefen
That goes back to Julius Caesar’s leadership style.
One way of ending his civil war was to reach out to his enemies who fought with Pompey the Great.
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King Herod the Great (King of the Jews–in the Levant and in the Diaspora) certainly did not love his enemies.
Interesting: Compare Jesus’ Kingdom of God/Heaven/Righteousness to
a) King Herod the Great’s kingdom and to
b) Julius Caesar’s and Augustus Caesar’s empire.
BDEhrman
FreedomBen
evgendob
Robert
1 Guest(s)
In his ethical teachings, Jesus is quite clear: those who loved others would enter the kingdom. That meant being as concerned for others’ well-being as for your own.
Steefen
There were 400 million people on Earth in 1300 C.E., maybe.
There were 200 million people on Earth in 25 C.E., likely less.
Jesus, Hebrew 13: 8, the same yesterday, today, and forever, at ** you do not have permission to see this link ** did not mention animal extinction or what so much plastic in the environment (since 5 bn people on Earth, if plastics coincide with that pop. figure) that micro plastics are inside animals, birds, fish, whales, and humans.
Being “in need” is related to human population size.
Bart D.E.
Jesus’ ethics could never govern large collectives. That was of no concern to Jesus.
Steefen
Jesus had no political diplomacy for introducing his Jewish Apocalyptic Kingdom to Temple Authorities, Jewish governor/kings or empire-sponsor governors, senators, or emperors.
** you do not have permission to see this link ** is purpose: to the house of Israel (yesterday, today, and forever).
Micro ethics, no concern for macro issues. “We as a people will get to the promise land” new Moses, Sacrifice for the World (Decius Mundus), World Savior?
Bart, how can ** you do not have permission to see this link ** (Savior of the World) then be correct?