Bart Ehrman Blog Readers Forum

A A A
Forum Scope


Match



Forum Options



Min search length: 3 characters / Max search length: 84 characters
Lost password?
sp_TopicIcon
Seeing Human Evolution and Guiding It
Avatar
gmphap1

4 Posts
(Offline)
1
May 21, 2021 - 10:04 pm

Bart has been excellent (isn’t he always) on the topic of the Spirit in NT times. From a recent post…

“The reason he is writing back to the community in Thessalonica is fundamental to our interests here.  There are hints for why Paul wrote the letter throughout, but the matter comes to a climax in chapter 4.  Members of the Thessalonian community have died since Paul left, and those in the church are very concerned about the fate of the deceased.  Paul had taught his converts that Jesus was soon to return from heaven in judgment on the earth and to bring in God’s great kingdom.  Those who believed in Christ would be given a great reward and would be granted a glorious eternal life in this kingdom.

“But that hasn’t happened.  And now these church members have died in the meantime.  It appears the Thessalonian Christians are upset, thinking that those who have already passed away have missed the boat.  When Christ returns – they will not get their reward.  And members of the community are grieving for their lost ones (** you do not have permission to see this link **).

“Paul responds by assuring his readers that the dead in Christ have not at all lost out.  On the contrary, when Christ returns from heaven on the day of judgment, they, the dead, will be the first to rise from their graves to meet Christ in the air.   Those who are still living will then ascend as well, and they will all be with Christ, then together forever (4:13-18).”

My question: Isn’t this what we see happening again in America with all the conspiracy like QAnon? Trump didn’t prevent the certification on Jan 6, ok, let’s regroup. Trump didn’t prevent the inauguration on January 20. Ok, regroup again. Now, I’ve heard big names in evangelicalism, Paul’s as it were of the day, say things like, Trump is really still president and he holds the keys to the military and he’s just waiting his time to be “resurrected”. 

I don’t mean at all for this to be political, please ignore that part. Just using it as a point of history. Way back 20 years after Jesus died, humans were thinking their world would get better and following leaders that one could argue led them astray. This is happening again today and has happened many, many times between Paul and Trump.

How do we as humans fix this? How do we, like we are beginning to see our biases and calling for a better world, do the same here? How do we learn from things like the Christian scripture to better ourselves as a human race? After all, the new Ford F-150 “Lightening” can power your home for three days! Why can’t we as humans stop ourselves from following leaders that when their teaching doesn’t come true, we allow them to reframe their teaching and we continue to believe them?

Avatar
2380

57 Posts
(Offline)
2
May 23, 2021 - 9:41 am

Original sin.

Avatar
Steefen
7640 Posts
(Offline)
3
May 23, 2021 - 1:16 pm

Christians need to visit inforwars dot com every day and see if there are any videos of interest.
Know principles of argumentation and see what comes through those gates of proper argumentation.

Your question seems to be, shouldn’t Christians stop regrouping after being proven wrong? When Christian leaders have led people astray, shouldn’t Christians regroup and have a revival? How do we fix this? How do we become a better human race?

Do not be willfully ignorant.

Avatar
Steefen
7640 Posts
(Offline)
4
May 23, 2021 - 1:17 pm

Do not be willfully ignorant how blockchain is being used:

** you do not have permission to see this link **

Avatar
Steefen
7640 Posts
(Offline)
5
May 23, 2021 - 1:20 pm

Do you really want to be caught up in the air with Jesus and the undead as Paul suggests?

Avatar
Stephen
4488 Posts
(Offline)
6
May 23, 2021 - 11:41 pm

2380 said
Original sin.

  

A pernicious doctrine.

 

Christians need to visit inforwars dot com every day and see if there are any videos of interest.
Know principles of argumentation and see what comes through those gates of proper argumentation.

What is religion but the greatest conspiracy theory of all time?

Do not be willfully ignorant.

Good advice.  

Avatar
FocusMyView

566 Posts
(Offline)
7
June 18, 2021 - 3:40 pm

It’s because we don’t know who or what we are yet. Most of how we define ourselves is through the lens of a modern lens of modern religion, which may not have existed until the 1500s. 

Humans have such extensive cultural layers added on to their primate physical being that they cannot unravel what is real and what is not. 

I think I will make a post about it. The Truth Matters. 

In the meantime, I completely agree that the recent rise in fundamentalism mirrors the dangers of the original rise of Christianity (and Judeanism). Given the goal of fundamentalism is to recreate the ancient religion as much as possible, this should not surprise us. Evidence and logic are giving way to persuasion and revelation as the new truth. 

Perhaps we can blame post truth relevatism or the misrepresentation of post truth relativism. IDK. But I think the danger is real and is more than a last gasp of “conservatism.” Ignoring it may be a dangerous gamble.

Forum Timezone: America/Indiana/Indianapolis
All RSSShow Stats
Administrators:
BDEhrman
FreedomBen
evgendob
Robert
Top Posters:
Steefen: 7640
Stephen: 4488
Porphyry: 1834
godspell: 1827
DavidFord: 1323
brenmcg: 1184
BJH1960: 1148
Colin Milton: 1142
JAS: 948
Jarek: 936
Newest Members:
jim2day
mgrandy64
jeffweng
Dmanny1204
Bercan
abreupedro
muk977
george3
Karrar21
Jeannie.INGRAHAM
Forum Stats:
Groups: 2
Forums: 13
Topics: 2597
Posts: 45749

 

Member Stats:
Guest Posters: 65
Members: 65738
Moderators: 0
Admins: 4
Most Users Ever Online: 3559
Currently Online: Judith
Guest(s) 89
Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)