Well, I think it is quite clear that he likes Ireland, and that he seems to acknowledge that Christianity has, in a general sense, lost its way — its sense of authority — and its sense of confidence in itself — and perhaps attempted to regroup by trying to reassert a former position that it no longer enjoys. That effort, he seems to think, will merely repeat the problems that currently besiege it. Beyond that, all I could get is that he seems to be seeking some form of Christianity in which he can still sell books (and perhaps collect speaking fees).
JAS said
Well, I think it is quite clear that he likes Ireland, and that he seems to acknowledge that Christianity has, in a general sense, lost its way — its sense of authority — and its sense of confidence in itself — and perhaps attempted to regroup by trying to reassert a former position that it no longer enjoys. That effort, he seems to think, will merely repeat the problems that currently besiege it. Beyond that, all I could get is that he seems to be seeking some form of Christianity in which he can still sell books (and perhaps collect speaking fees).
Well I won’t impugn his motives. Hart probably thinks he’s saving humankind with his wisdom. And what author doesn’t want to sell books? I just have one question for the Doctor Mellifuus. I read his book about God. How do you get from the Ground of Being to Jesus traipsing around in his dusty sandals in Palestine? I need that process sketched out for me in as much detail as possible.
Dr Philip Gonzales, Faculty of Philosophy
Tell us about the paper you are going to present.
Dr. David Bentley Hart
You’re engaged in an apocalyptic horizon that has been shaping the past.
The meaning of the past is altered.
There is a constant remaking of the past.
Remember the future: the apocalyptic horizon.
Dr Philip Gonzales, Faculty of Philosophy
Tell us your thoughts about The Future of Christian Thinking, the subject of the conference.
The challenges of Christianity are multi-faceted; perhaps, you can comment on the timeliness of the theme.
Prof. John Milbank
If you say Christianity is in decline, you must say all cultural associative movements are in decline.
Even if Christianity is becoming an increasing minority thing–
Steve Campbell, Author of Historical Accuracy
It is according to Archbishop Vigano, who makes a case that canceling our faith in Jesus Christ is underway by some elites involved in a global coup d’etat.
I’ll leave a comment on this video that a message from Archbishop Vigano should be given at the conference.
Comment:
A message from Archbishop Vigano should be given at the conference, for example, YouTube Channel: RUSTIC’S*stillshadows*, Video: “Archbishop Carlo Maria Vigano – They Want to Cancel Our Faith in Jesus Christ.”
Steefen
Your book cancels faith in Jesus Christ.
Steve Campbell, Author of Historical Accuracy
I am salvaging what is valuable after my deconstruction/destruction/revealing deep dive.
Steefen
And you, just like the elites of the global coup d’etat would build back better–you would give us a New Testament that starts with the authentic letters of Paul placed before the gospels and you would leave out the book of Revelation, the non-authentic letters of Paul, and 2 Peter.
Steve Campbell, Author of Historical Accuracy
I would love to add the Testimonium Flavianum passage and the two passages that follow that passage as an introduction to this New Testament that begins with the authentic letters of Paul followed by the gospels. I would also footnote the Last Supper passages with Leviticus 17: 10-11.
Steefen
Where would you put Acts? Would you even put in Acts?
Steve Campbell, Author of Historical Accuracy
The three Testimonium Flavianum passages, Authentic Letters of Paul, Gospel of Marcion, Mark, Matthew, Luke, Acts, John, then passages from Antiquities and War of the Jews covering John the Baptist, Pilate, the Samaritan Redeemer, the Egyptian Prophet, Agrippa I and Claudius, Felix, James, Jesus, Son of Ananus, the Woe-Saying Jesus, the rebels attacking Legion Fulminata XII, the Jewish Civil War, Jesus of Galilee’s response to General Vespasian’s diplomacy, the Battle of Galilee, the destruction of the Temple, and how Jerusalem turned into Aelia Capitolina.
Of course, I would have to put my editor’s cap on and make sure this flows.
Prof. John Milbank (continued)
I think the energy and ideas are still there.
It’s not a good institutional situation, now, for theology.
Its future in the university is uncertain.
We should reconsider what the theological enterprise is–whether it should even be called theology.
In France, theology cannot be taught at secular universities.
Should theology be more ecumenical?
There is no monopoly for laying an inheritance claim to patristic legacies.
Should Theology pursue only one of those legacies?
p/u at 8:12 / 27:53
Stephen said
Of course, I would have to put my editor’s cap on and make sure this flows.Of course! The flow is all.
For example, before the Testimonium Flavianum passage and the two passages after it, put Daniel, 1 and 2 Maccabees, history of how Herod the Great came to power, Gabriel’s Revelation / Jeselsohn Stone, 1 and 2 Enoch, Philo of Alexandria.
As for Pauline Letters, Current Order according to Britannica
** you do not have permission to see this link **
Romans
1 Corinthians
2 Corinthians
Galatians
Ephesians
Philippians
Colossians
1 Thessalonians
2 Thess
1 Timothy
2 Timothy
Titus
Philemon
Order I would like to see
- Galatians (c. 48 AD)
- First Thessalonians (c. 49–51)
- First Corinthians (c. 53–54)
- Second Corinthians (c. 55–56)
- Romans (c. 55–57)
- Philippians (c. 57–59 or c. …
- Philemon (c. 57–59 or c.
= = =
Anyone else has suggestions?
= = =
Anyone read the authentic letters in chronological order?
What difference did you notice?
Robert
Practically all critical scholars place 1 Thessalonians as the oldest letter we have. Gerd Lüdemann even dates it as early as 41 CE. There is not conclusive agreement on the ordering of the rest of the letters, but one can see a development over time in Paul’s theology and his view of his own personal destiny.
Steefen
The order of the seven letters came from Google > People also ask: Which letters of Paul are authentic.
After clicking the Wikipedia article it is using citing
The New Interpreter’s Bible Commentary Ten Volume Set (2015), I see of the seven, five are considered more genuine.
1 Galatians 48 CE
2 First Thessalonians 49-51 CE
3 Romans 55-57 CE
4 Philippians 57-59 or 62 CE
5 Philemon 57-59 or 62 CE
Less Genuine
6 First Corinthians
7 Second Corinthians
= = =
Robert, what encyclopedia are you using or are you using The Authentic Letters of Paul by Arthur J. Dewey?
Second (from Wikipedia entry for Epistle to the Galatians):
Date
A majority of scholars agree that Galatians was written between the late 40s and early 50s,[10] although some date the original composition to c. 50–60.[11] Jon Jordan notes that an interesting point to be made in the search for the dating of Galatians concerns whether or not it is a response to the Council of Jerusalem or a factor leading up to the Council. He writes, “did Paul’s argument in Galatians flow out of the Jerusalem Council’s decision, or did it come before the Jerusalem Council and possibly help shape that very decision?”[12] It would have been enormously helpful to Paul’s argument if he could have mentioned the decision of the Council of Jerusalem that Gentiles should not be circumcised. The absence of this argument from Paul strongly implies Galatians was written prior to the council. Since the council took place in 48-49 AD, and Paul evangelized South Galatia in 47-48 AD, the most plausible date for the writing of Galatians is 48 AD.[13]
Third, (from Wikipedia entry for First Epistle to the Thessalonians):
Date
A majority of modern New Testament scholars date 1 Thessalonians to 49-51 AD,[7] during Paul’s 18-month stay in Corinth coinciding with his second missionary journey.[8] A minority of scholars who do not recognize the historicity of Acts date it in the early 40s AD. The Delphi Inscription dates Gallio’s proconsulship of Achaia to 51-52 AD, and Acts 18:12-17 mentions Gallio, toward the end of Paul’s stay in Corinth.
Unlike all subsequent Pauline epistles, 1 Thessalonians does not focus on justification by faith or questions of Jewish–Gentile relations, themes that are covered in all other letters. Because of this, some scholars see this as an indication that this letter was written before the Epistle to the Galatians, where Paul’s positions on these matters were formed and elucidated.[1]
Wikipedia is not saying all critical scholars put 1 Thess before Gal.–some scholars…
Also, speak to the “prior to Jerusalem council line of reasoning.”
Thank you.
Pauline chronology is a scholarly cottage industry. And it’s all speculation. 1 Thess is considered the first mainly because it concerns itself with the imminent eschaton. Romans is regarded as a summa, something you work up to to. But it’s ALL speculation.
Paul must have written dozens if not hundreds of letters. We have 7 count’em 7 that survive. To generalize about Paul based on such a proportion of authentic texts is probably misguided. But that’s what we have.
Steefen said
StephenTo generalize about Paul based on such a proportion of authentic texts is probably misguided.
Steefen
I doubt that scholars who have tracked the development of Paul’s writings by reading the available letters in chronological order were misguided.
Steefen I’m obviously not saying that scholars shouldn’t study Paul’s letters. But all conclusions are tentative and only rise to the level of informed speculation. This is no secret. There is no conspiracy at work. I think you will find that if you look back at he history of Pauline interpretation a large part of it rested, erroneously, on the assumption that the account in Acts was historically reliable.
BDEhrman
FreedomBen
evgendob
Robert
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