I hear that narrative quite a bit. In other words, the narrative that the resurrection MUST have happened, or why else would so many early Christians die for their faith when persecuted (instead of renouncing their faith).
I have several opinions of my own with respect to counter arguments (e.g., this type of stuff happens with various religions and even with cults, as we have seen in modern times).
Yet curious to see other folks perspectives. Thanks!
– CG
We don’t know who died because they refused to recant their claim to having seen Jesus.
We know (from Josephus) that James the brother of Jesus was killed, and Paul claims that James saw the risen Jesus, but it is not at all clear that he was killed for claiming to see the risen Jesus.
It is likely that Peter was killed (consider Jesus’ prediction at the end of John, which seems to presuppose that Peter has already been killed; Clement, so far as he can be trusted, claims he was martyred in Rome), and again, Paul claims that Peter saw the risen Jesus, but again, it is not clear what he was killed for (let alone that he had a chance to avoid death by recanting).
Paul claimed to see Jesus, he claimed to suffer various persecutions for the sake of his gospel, Clement claims he was martyred, but (aside from just trusting Clement) we don’t really know that he was killed, let alone the reason and circumstances of his death.
Acts claims that James son of Zebedee was killed by Herod, but it isn’t clear the degree we should trust Acts as an historical source, and even if he was killed, it is not clear why he was killed (remember, this is the same James who was portrayed as having a temper; it is entirely conceivable that he ran afoul of the authorities for any number of reasons that have nothing to do with his seeing the risen Christ).
The vast majority of the 12 (as well as most of the other disciples) simply disappear once the gospels end. We just know nothing about them. The only one not already mentioned that we can be reasonably sure continued to be involved in the movement is John, but there is not even a tradition that he was killed.
And even if we did know that they died because they refused to retract their claim of having seen the risen Christ, there is the possibility that they were sincerely mistaken. People don’t die for lies, but a sincere mistake is–to the individual–indistinguishable from the truth.
εκαινθησαν οι χειριστοι των ελετων
They killed the lowest ranking men of those that could be caught.
καινω
χειριστος
ελετος
Opposite of ελευθερος (Latin: LIBER)
Whatever those kind of words meant back 2000 years ago. I don’t believe much that anybody born after the 13th Amendment of 1865 has much to know about it all.
On the larger subject of Christian persecution in general see Candida Moss’ ** you do not have permission to see this link **. Moss shows that the view of Christians constantly under threat of persecution by the Romans is largely a myth encouraged by the church for polemical reasons in fights over doctrine. There were sporadic persecutions but they were localized and regional and had more to do with cultural sensitivities than actual Christian beliefs. Christians did not participate in Roman civil affairs and refused to serve in the military. They were considered weirdos and cultish. Natural scapegoats.
What specific century are we thinking of?
I think that definitely during the first century the “Christians” were not allowed to participate in any Roman Empire politics. And second, they separated themselves away from association with Jewish groups that were plotting to become a militia to overthrow the Roman authorities in Judea. The legal problems that led to persecution was trying to convince the Roman authorities that the churches were not a political organization or militia organization in disguise. 🥸
BDEhrman
FreedomBen
evgendob
Robert
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