I’m currently reading Hekhalot literature and Merkabah mysticism and you don’t go far without intuiting that early Jewish Christianity and this particular form of Jewish sectarian mysticism either influenced one another or perhaps drew from a common reservoir of thought.  I’m hip deep in Peter Schäfer’s ** you do not have permission to see this link ** about the “Two Gods” heresy.  

Robert said
Yep, I have it. (Actually, I think I mentioned this to you a while back.) The tone of the book sounds like he’s trying to make peace with Daniel Boyarin. I’m not very l well read in Jewish mysticism but I do sometimes get the impression that Jewish Christian ideas are being appropriated.

  

You probably did.  Schäfer wrote a ** you do not have permission to see this link ** which is about the possible relationship.  Dan pointed out that Paul could be looked at as a Merkabah mystic.  

Robert said
I would love to have access to your library, Stephen. Is it perhaps open to the public? 

  

Well don’t get the wrong idea.  I follow my interests which are very selective.  And I refuse to pay full price for anything.  (You know it might be useful to start a thread to help folks who are interested in scholarship find books without bankrupting themselves.)  I’ve got a nice shelf of Markan material I’ve built up over the years but it’s probably nothing you don’t already know about.  But I hardly have any Pauline stuff at all. The thing I have the most of is Ancient Near East related.  Sumerian, Akkadian and Babylonian literature.  And possibly every translation of the Epic of Gilgamesh available.  

Good Morning!

I would like some help,

Are there any indications that Thiago was a master of righteousness, given the period why we don’t find the thetagram in any writing of Brit Hadasha? we find ourselves in the writings of the Essenes.
Is this hidden because of Pharisaism or does it exist in ancient writings, as it has no knowledge! thank you

Robert said
Sorry, Daniel, but I don’t understand your question. Can you provide some more background information?

  

Thanks for answering!

Is there any document, parchment that has the YHWH thetagram in the Brit Hadasha books or apocryphal books linked to the story of Jesus?

Thanks!

sorry my english is not good.

Robert said
The Hebrew tetragrammaton יהוה (YHWH) is not found in any extant New Testament manuscripts, though some have theorized that it might have been used in some quotations of the Jewish scriptures in earlier lost manuscripts of the New Testament, following the practice of some of the earliest manuscripts of the Greek translation of the Jewish scriptures. I’m not aware of this practice in later Christian apocryphal works, but I’m not certain of that.

I don’t know how this might relate to Essenes, Pharisees, or the Thiago chap you mention. Who was he, by the way?

  

Thanks!

James, brother of Jesus! in studies of the Qumran, I read in the book of Geza Vermes that he was possibly a Master of Righteousness of the Essenes!

Robert said
OK, now I get it Thiago is James from the Greek ** you do not have permission to see this link **‎.

What’s your native language, Daniel, Spanish or Portuguese perhaps? 

  

Português, Tanks 

I find it highly ironic and more than little funny that Carrier winds up voicing an opinion that lines up with that of Christian fundamentalists – that Isaiah 53 is a messianic prophecy!  Carrier needs to go talk to the Rabbis.  I don’t have the material before me and this is such a specialized field of knowledge that I’m hesitant to go from memory but the reference in b.Sanhedrin 98b to Isaiah 53:4 does NOT mean that the entire chapter is Messianic. Apparently in b.Sanhedrin 98b an attempt is being made to list all the names of the messiah and the scribes were quote mining the Hebrew Bible for passages that contained these so-called Messianic names.  The problem is that many of the other passages referenced in this text (including one in Jeremiah that I can’t recall, sorry) don’t actually refer to the Messiah either!  This is just normal Rabbinic exegesis.   Richard, for god’s sake go talk to the Rabbis before you tell them what their own scriptures mean, a mistake Christians have been making for millennia!

As to the question of influence there is very good reason to think there was Christian influence on Rabbinical thought.  As I mentioned earlier in this thread over the last year I have been reading in the area of Jewish sectarian Hekhalot  literature and Merkabah mysticism (directly influenced by reading Robert Alter’s translation and commentary on Ezekiel).  See Timo Eskola’s ** you do not have permission to see this link ** which deals with just this issue.   The Merkabah sects remained strictly Torah observant but the parallels with early Christian speculation are astounding.  Paul has even been described as a perfect Merkabah mystic, not completely ironically.