Joseph Lumpkin
Our search for deeper understanding often leads beyond the Bible itself.
Argumentation Specialist
I agree. There is Egyptology. There was the empire of which Galilee and Jerusalem was a part.
Joseph Lumpkin
We must know which books were popular and important at the time the Bible was being written.
Argumentation Specialist
And we must know which books were popular and important at the time of the Biblical Jesus and at the time Paul wrote his letters.
Joseph Lumpkin
Is not the non-canonical book that most influenced the thought and theology of the writers of the New Testament worth further research and contemplation?
Argumentation Specialist
Yes. It is not enough to research and contemplate Egyptology, Antiquities of the Jews, the Jewish Wars, the Autobiography of Josephus, biographies of Herod the Great, Julius Caesar, Augustus Caesar, Nero with Seneca, Platonism during the 1 century BCE and during the 1 century CE, Vespasian, Titus, and Domitian.
Argumentation Specialist on How Gospel Writers Used 1 Enoch (as shown by Joseph Lumpkin)
Enoch 69: 27
The sum of judgment was given to the Son of Man.
and
John 5: 22
The Father does not judge. All judgment has been committed to the son.
= = =
Enoch 40: 9
hope for eternal life
and
Matthew 19: 16
Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?
= = =
Enoch 38: 2
It would have been better that those who deny the Lord had not been born.
and
Matthew 26: 24
It would have been better that the one who betrays the Lord had not been born.
= = =
Enoch 94: 8
You, rich, you have trusted in your riches.
and
Luke 6: 24
The rich have received their consolation.
Enoch 108: 11
I will summon good spirits belonging to the generation of light
and
John 12: 36
that you may be called the children of the light
= = =
Argumentation Specialist
Well, well, well, I need not be so concerned about the dating of the first part of 1 Enoch versus the second part of 1 Enoch since the references from 1 Enoch to the gospels are across both parts of 1 Enoch.
Prof Boccaccini has edited a fine ** you do not have permission to see this link ** relevant to these conversations with Loren Stuckenbruck. Lester Grabbe’s thirty page discussion of the concept of the ‘Son of Man’ in Second Temple Judaism is worth the price of admission alone (though for god’s sake don’t pay full price for it on Amazon).
Stuckenbruck has a nice ** you do not have permission to see this link ** with Benjamin Reynolds as well.
Robert said
Steefen said
Argumentation Specialist
Well, well, well, I need not be so concerned about the dating of the first part of 1 Enoch versus the second part of 1 Enoch since the references from 1 Enoch to the gospels are across both parts of 1 Enoch.
I would only be concerned about dating the Book of Parables (Chapters 37-71) too early (eg, 100 BCE) and assuming that Jesus had access to this text with respect to some of the details that are not known until late medieval manuscripts in secondary translation into Ethiopic. You might benefit from looking at some of the larger issues at play in Enochic Judaism, eg, in the works of Gabriele Boccaccini. There were lots of ideas floating around that do not necessarily involve literary dependence.
I am “assuming” by 67 C.E., not by 27 C.E., Josephus and the gospel writers, not Jesus, were aware of the Enochian culture not just the term “Son of Man” as the above side-by-side verses listed by Lumpkin. They would have been aware of the concepts in the Book of Parables after the book was written and distributed. I choose to date the concepts in the Book of Parables before 2 Enoch.
Joseph Lumpkin – Introduction to 2 Enoch
To pave the way to Melchizedek, Methuselah functions as a priest for ten years and then passes his station on to Nir, Noah’s younger brother. Nir’s wife, Sopanim, miraculously conceives without human intercourse while about to die and posthumously gives birth to Melchizedek.
Michael the Archangel promises Melchizedek salvation, but there will be another Melchizedek.
= = =
Joseph Lumpkin
Apocalyptic literature bloomed after the destruction of the Temple.
Steefen
The writers of Mark, Matthew, Luke, and John wrote in Greek, used throughout the Roman Empire, about Jesus, the apocalyptic prophet, after the destruction of the Temple. What Kingdom of Righteousness was in power after the Apocalypse-Tribulation? Answer: The Apocalypse-Glorious Kingdom was the Roman Empire.
Joseph Lumpkin
There are six main parts to 1 Enoch.
Steefen
Not two. Okay. What are they?
Joseph Lumpkin
The Book of Watchers, Chapters 1-36, probably written late 3rd century/early 2nd century B.C.E.
The Book of Parables, Chapters 37-71, probably written 1st century C.E.
The Book of Astronomy and Calendar, Chapters 72-82, probably written late 3rd century/early 2nd century B.C.E.
The Book of Visions, Chapters 83-90, probably written around the time of the Maccabean Revolt (167-160 B.C.E.)
The Book of Warnings and Blessings of Enoch, Chapters 91-104, probably written early 2nd century B.C.E.
Later Additions to the Text, Book of Noah, Chapters 105-108, probably written 2nd century B.C.E.
in 1 Enoch Chapter Order
Enoch 38: 2 The Book of Parables, probably written 1st century C.E.
It would have been better that those who deny the Lord had not been born.
** you do not have permission to see this link **
It would have been better that the one who betrays the Lord had not been born.
= = =
Enoch 40: 9 The Book of Parables, probably written 1st century C.E.
hope for eternal life
and
** you do not have permission to see this link **
Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?
= = =
Joseph Lumpkin says there is a mistranslation of Luke 9: 35 describing the transfiguration of Jesus Christ. The original Greek is,
“This is my Son, the Elect One. Hear him.”
Enoch 45: 3 The Book of Parables, probably written 1st century C.E.
My Elect One shall sit on the throne of glory and shall try the works of the righteous, and their places of rest shall be.
Enoch 69: 27 The Book of Parables, probably written 1st century C.E.
The sum of judgment was given to the Son of Man [The Elect One].
and
** you do not have permission to see this link **
The Father does not judge. All judgment has been committed to the son.
= = =
Enoch 94: 8 The Book of Warnings and Blessings of Enoch, probably written early 2nd century B.C.E.
You, rich, you have trusted in your riches.
and
** you do not have permission to see this link **
The rich have received their consolation.
BDEhrman
FreedomBen
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Robert
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