“Muslim” is Arabic and Hebrew word. It is closely link with the Hebrew word “Salem”
King James translated Meshullam (Muslim) to “He that is Perfect”
and “Salem” is translated to “Perfect”
JeruSalem means “City of Salem”. Or “City of Perfect”, or “City of he who is Perfect”.
That means JeruSalem likely means “City of Muslims”
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Shalom said
“Muslim” is Arabic and Hebrew word. It is closely link with the Hebrew word “Salem”
King James translated Meshullam (Muslim) to “He that is Perfect”
and “Salem” is translated to “Perfect”
JeruSalem means “City of Salem”. Or “City of Perfect”, or “City of he who is Perfect”.
That means JeruSalem likely means “City of Muslims”
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Does Jerusalem means is incorrect.
It should be Does Jerusalem mean…
Shalom said
“Muslim” is Arabic and Hebrew word. It is closely link with the Hebrew word “Salem”
King James translated Meshullam (Muslim) to “He that is Perfect”
and “Salem” is translated to “Perfect”
JeruSalem means “City of Salem”. Or “City of Perfect”, or “City of he who is Perfect”.
That means JeruSalem likely means “City of Muslims”
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Shalom,
There is nothing edifying in this thread that you have started.
Edify: to instruct or improve someone morally or intellectually
Shalom said
“Muslim” is Arabic and Hebrew word. It is closely link with the Hebrew word “Salem”
King James translated Meshullam (Muslim) to “He that is Perfect”
and “Salem” is translated to “Perfect”
JeruSalem means “City of Salem”. Or “City of Perfect”, or “City of he who is Perfect”.
That means JeruSalem likely means “City of Muslims”
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The city with the specific name Jerusalem dates back to when?
When were people called Muslims? Let’s look at the history of Islam.
The history of Islam concerns the political, social, economic and developments of Islamicate civilization. Most historians believe that Islam originated in Mecca and Medina at the start of the 7th century CE, approximately 600 years after the founding of Christianity.
Muslims, however, believe that it did not start with Muhammad, but that it was the original faith of others whom they regard as prophets, such as Jesus, David, Moses, Abraham, Noah and Adam.
= = =
You cannot re-write the history of Ishmael and you surely cannot rewrite the Koran which separates Jews from Muslims.
Hebrews and Israelites are distinct from Muslims. So, one of their cities which was under Egyptian influence for a while, is not the city of Muslims. The descendants of Ishmael relocated or had relocated to Jerusalem when the end of the 21st Dynasty and the start of the 22nd Dynasty of Egypt overran the territory of that city? Answer: No, history does not tell us that.
JeruSalem means “City of Salem”. Or “City of Perfect”, or “City of he who is Perfect”. or… or did you reach your goal and then stop adding words?
Though I am no linguist, I have often thought Salem in terms of peace or surrender or submit. Notice I did not add words each time I used the word “or.” I was simply finding synonyms to thoroughly convey what understanding to get from each word. I was focusing on the meaning, not changing the meaning by adding new words.
So no, I cannot agree that City of Salem = City of Perfect = City of he who is perfect.
So I could see City of Salem = City of surrender = City of Islam. But I would not going around telling people it was so unless I had someone who knew ancient Hebrew, Aramaic, and Arabic. I know none of these.
FocusMyView said
JeruSalem means “City of Salem”. Or “City of Perfect”, or “City of he who is Perfect”. or… or did you reach your goal and then stop adding words?
Though I am no linguist, I have often thought Salem in terms of peace or surrender or submit. Notice I did not add words each time I used the word “or.” I was simply finding synonyms to thoroughly convey what understanding to get from each word. I was focusing on the meaning, not changing the meaning by adding new words.
So no, I cannot agree that City of Salem = City of Perfect = City of he who is perfect.
So I could see City of Salem = City of surrender = City of Islam. But I would not going around telling people it was so unless I had someone who knew ancient Hebrew, Aramaic, and Arabic. I know none of these.
There are many translation of the name “JeruSalem” . One is “foundation of peace,”.
The word Salem is often translated to “Whole’ , and “Perfect” by King James.
The “Salem”, “Shalom” are from S-L-M root. The word “Islam” and “Muslim” are from the same root.
Yes, they are very closely related. Again, not a linguist here, but city of Muslims seems to be stretching city of the surrendered or city of peace.
But Jerusalem is very, very old. It is named Uru-Salim in the Amarna letters. That is the first written mention of its name, I think (correct me if I am wrong). Is this Uru-Salim, in Akkadian, supposed to have the same meaning?
Also, I am curious on your thoughts about the name Solomon. If you have the time, is the Solom part of Solomon closely related to the Salem part of Jerusalem, in your assessment?
I agree that JeruSalem looks more like “City of Surrender”.
In the Bible the word “Meshullam” also means “Surrendering to G-d”.
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“Submit to God and be at peace with him; in this way prosperity will come to you.
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I agree with your translations. I disagree with your transmutations. City of peace cannot translate to city of peacemakers. You have changed the meaning. Its a sort of related meaning. but it is not the same meaning.
Now if archeologists found an ancient naming of Jerusalem with another syllable or two that translated to city of peacemakers, we would both be excited to find that out.
What I see is both the naming of Jerusalem and the title of Muslim reflect the same root, and that root means peace or submission. To say that sharing the same roots allows all kinds of interpolations is not really going to get us anywhere. I could use the same logic you are using to say that Muslims are just Jerusalemites. We both know that is a nonsensical statement.
Edify: to instruct or improve someone morally or intellectually
That’s certainly always my goal.
I wonder if Prof Ehman’s Muslim fans would be content to have the textual critical apparatus which Prof Ehrman practices turned on the Quran as well as the Bible? Jess wonderin’
Muslims also believe the Old and New Testaments are divinely inspired, and that Jesus was the greatest prophet other than Muhammad.
There is serious analytical scholarship relating to the Q’uran. What you’re talking about has happened. However, I don’t know offhand of anyone with Bart’s readership doing precisely what he does, writing trade books geared towards mass audiences that question the underpinnings of modern Islam. There is very very fine scholarship about Islam, though. And who reads that? Not you, self-evidently.
There is very very fine scholarship about Islam, though.
Do tell. Could you recommend a couple books of textual criticism of the Quran for me? I’ll have to make do as you did I guess since I expect vast swaths of the text will be in Arabic, the way vast swaths of Prof Ehrman’s textual criticism is in Greek. Just a couple will do, thanks.
I really couldn’t. I read widely (articles as well as books), and if you did the same, you’d already know this. Did you honestly think one of the two most influential religions on earth, its founder, and its Holy Book, hadn’t been extensively studied?
If you want something readable–but far from unsophisticated– I’d recommend The Life and Times of Muhammad, by John Bagot Glubb, also known as Glubb Pasha. He had some fine insights, having lived in the Islamic world for many years.
But textual criticism, much as I appreciate the need for it, is not something I devote myself to.
There is very very fine scholarship about Islam, though. And who reads that? Not you, self-evidently.
The only scholar known to me personally goes under the moniker Ibn Warraq (“Son of the papermaker”), apparently a frequently used pseudonym for dissidents in the past, since he lives with constant death threats. In some quarters pointing out that the Arabic of the Quran contains Persian loan words from the 9th and 10th centuries is a capital offense. Nothing like a good fatwa to put a damper on textual criticism! And just for the record he has written several books aimed at a more general audience. And predictably they have been controversial.
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