The authors of Genesis achieve the same miracle as the authors of the Epic of Gilgamesh. Sophisticated, literary, nevertheless they managed not to lose the elemental character of the original tales. What an astonishing gift! To be able to glimpse into a primeval world where snakes can talk.
Ye shall not surely die.
Not about dying with the sense of immortality. The Hebrew word here holds the meaning of “dying, you will die.” The story is about Living in the eyes of God. “Have you seen my servant, Job?” Here, Job would like to die. Linguistically, the expression is mowt tamuwt meaning “dying, your lives will be shortened”. Compared with mowt tuwmat, dying you will be put to death immediately. In this story, Man was formed a mortal creature. God blocks the tree of life to prevent him from attaining immortality in his “fallen” state.
Stephen: “The authors of Genesis achieve the same miracle as the authors of the Epic of Gilgamesh. Sophisticated, literary, nevertheless they managed not to lose the elemental character of the original tales. What an astonishing gift! To be able to glimpse into a primeval world where snakes can talk.”
Right, I love the serpent. It is a running character. In one proverb, the alcoholic beverage is likened to a viper’s bite. Really powerful. And not only can the snake speak, so can the donkey. I love the donkey who can see what Balaam cannot.
The primeval is what they knew, in my mind. The open skies and dark nights. Desert heat, cedar forests. The misty beginnings of life. These people lived so close to the beginning of age and really were so intelligent.
In what sense is the knowledge of good and evil a “Fall”? Paul and his myrmidons effed the whole thing up for all generations to come. William Blake had it just right. Mankind didn’t fall. We went from a state of innocence to a state of experience. As we must.
The ancient Poets animated all sensible objects with Gods or Geniuses, calling them by the names and adorning them with the properties of woods, rivers, mountains, lakes, cities, nations, and whatever their enlarged & numerous senses could perceive.
And particularly they studied the genius of each city & country, placing it under its mental deity;
Till a system was formed, which some took advantage of & enslav’d the vulgar by attempting to realize or abstract the mental deities from their objects:
Thus began Priesthood;
Choosing forms of worship from poetic tales.
And at length they pronounc’d that the Gods had order’d such things.
Thus men forgot that All deities reside in the human breast.
William Blake is best known for his early lyrics taught in every school in the land. (At least they used to be. Can’t say what’s taught now.) “Tiger Tiger burning bright…” But his later so-called “prophetic” books remain largely unexplored. His The Marriage of Heaven and Hell has been called the first text of the “Third Testament”.
Let the slave grinding at the mill run out into the field
Let him look up into the heavens and laugh in the bnght air
Let the inchained soul, shut up in darkness and in sighing
Whose face has never seen a smile in thirty weary Years
Rise and look out; his chains are loose, his dungeon doors are open;
And let his wife and children return from the oppressor’s scourge
They look behind at every step and believe it is a dream
Singing: The sun has left his blackness and has found a fresher morning
And the fair Moon rejoices in the clear and cloudless night
For empire is no more and now the Lion and Wolf shall cease
For everything that lives is holy
WERE IT NOT FOR DEATH
Stand aghast at horrors and fears
Like ignorance will creep and conquer
Culminating in the use of force
Which settles nothing. Ours
Is to question, not to suffer
From our inadequacies, wars
Of our devising, or theirs
With whom we differ
And brutishly contend. Where is
The victory when bellicose ideas
Are not abolished in the victor
Nor the vanquished? What conquers
Must be conquered from within: the powers
Of death and ignorance, for
Were it not for death, there would be no wars
(Thomas, L.W., Pursuits, 1986)
Well, Judith, I was looking for something more positive in the way of remembering passed loved ones and the hope of being re-united in some form of positive sense of goodness and gladness. This Were it Not for Death comes from this Pursuits given to me as a gift from the good professor Thomas in appreciation for my participation in his class. In signing, he wrote “In this pool I see more worlds than my own. . .”
I thought this one appropriate to post because in the ANE story of Atrahasis (the model for Noah) the gods, after creating the human to labor for them decide the earth is over-populated and too noisy so they devise ways to reduce their numbers, i.e., death. Also, the last line of the poem I think it reflects a certain twisted rationale. More there than that of course. <br /
Judith: And can Earth’s civilization learn this before it’s too late?
This may be an interesting link for answering this question.
A discussion offered by Carnegie Counsel for Ethics in International Affairs, Amy Chua: Political Tribes: Group Instinct and the Fate of Nations.
I’m into it now about 38 minutes. Very insightful.
Thank you for this but I’m not sure tribalism is a satisfactory explanation. I’m in the process of trying to plan a large family reunion and some are hesitant to
affirm reservations because of the political divide. We had the same grandparents, grew up together, same faith in the beginning, all about the same as to our economic
social status and we genuinely care for one another. Even so, politics is a major issue! Tribalism within the same tribe???
Even so, politics is a major issue! Tribalism within the same tribe???
I’m afraid so. I live in Wash DC and when I go visit my family back in Georgia, I feel just like I’m traveling to another planet. Religion plays a big part of it but they don’t distinguish politics and religion. I do my best to relate to them on a personal level and I’m mostly successful. I have one cousin who tries to start arguments but he’s an a**hole who thinks Jesus gives him permission.
Jill thanks for the video. Look forward to reading her book.
Something else: It seems to me it’s worse than it was back in 2017 or 2018 (Amy Chua’s discussion just shared with us). Now I’m hearing friends I respect say such things as
“Just so we win.” The implication is that how they win does not matter. It makes me feel concerned about how all this will end.
Sorry if this is thread drift again.
I tell myself that a vigorous democracy is going to be a mess in the best of situations, with competing interests vying for advantage. If you look back at our history, American politics has always been an inside knife fight winner take all kind of affair, right from the start. What is always disturbing are attacks on the legitimacy of the democratic process. If one side can’t lose then we don’t live in a democracy anymore.
“What is always disturbing are attacks on the legitimacy of the democratic process.”
Airing our differences is one thing. I think we’ve lost sight of the practical side of living together. Seems its all smoke and mirrors lately. The art of the extreme as opposed to consideration of fact and compromise.
I’m happy to make a contribution. History does have a way of giving perspective. Look back at the first time Americans had a chance to vote for a choice of candidates, in 1796, in the race between John Adams and Thomas Jefferson. Holy crap it was so dirty! And of course at that point only white men who owned property could even vote.
There will be dark days ahead. But don’t despair. Our capacity for doubt and uncertainty is what makes us strong. Only the fools never have a sleepless night.
BDEhrman
FreedomBen
evgendob
Robert
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