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isaiah 53
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IR_2017

136 Posts
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September 15, 2021 - 6:36 am
 
 
Scorned and isolated from men, a man of pains and accustomed to illness, as one from whom we would hide our faces; he was scorned and we had no regard for him.

 

commentary : sounds like he is badly sick.

 

53:4 But in truth, it was our ills that he bore and our pains that he carried; but we had regarded him diseased, stricken by God and afflicted

 

commentary :

if i see a sick and diseased individual and say that he is cursed and at same time kick him out of the congregation at local synagogue, then in a sense the pain i afflicted on him, he carried. evil deeds applied on the sick like a punch, slap, kick and verbal abuse. 

none of this sounds like levitical sacrificial language

 

53:5 He was violated because of our sins and crushed because of our iniquities; the chastisement of our peace was upon him and with his company, we were healed.

 

commentary : he isn’t dying for sins, he is being violated for no reason. there is no “willingness” on the part of the persecuted person.  after they realised what they had done and repented, this caused healing. 

dying for god and dying for sins are two different things.

example : 

 

A:”eat pork”

b:”never!”

c: “gas this person” 

 

 

53:6 We have all strayed like sheep, each of us turning his own way, and the Lord inflicted upon him the iniquity of us all.

 

commentary : where did god tell them to inflict their crimes on it? 

But he was pained because of  our transgressions {מִפְּשָׁעֵנוּ (mi’pshaẸInu)}, crushed because of  our iniquities {מֵעֲו‍ֹנֹתֵינוּ (me’ạvonoTEInu)}

 

1. accustomed to disease , thought to be god forsaken (neither isaiah or god says that the servant is god forsaken) and crimes against the servant . none of this is vicarious atonement. 

 

53:7 He was persecuted and afflicted, but he did not open his mouth; like a sheep being led to the slaughter or like a ewe that is silent before her shearers, he did not open his mouth.

 

this shows how easy it was to persecute the servant, he did not gives threats. he did not say “god why you forsook me?” 

he did not say , “doom is to come on you soon” 

he did not say “you evil and adulterous generation” 

he did not read the psalms and call his persecutors dogs and bulls

he instead prayed for his persecutors. 

i think luke realised the problem and has jesus pray for his enemies. 

 

53:8 Through government and judgment was he deprived, and who could describe his generation, for he was cut off from the land of the living, it was for the sin of my nation that they were afflicted

 

if he is “cut off” how will he have a fair trial? sounds like he has been driven out of “land of the living” 

 

53:9 And he placed his grave with the wicked and his deaths were with the rich for no violence that he had done nor for any deception that was in his mouth.

 

he didnt do any violence against those who were pesecuting him and what he was accused of , he was not guilty of.

this does not mean that he was FREE of violence and deception. JUST in circumstance of persecution . The servant is definately not sinless.

 

53:10 And the Lord desired to crush and afflict him; if his soul would acknowledge guilt, he would see offspring and live long days and the purpose of God will succeed through his hand.

 

under persecution god desired to crush and afflict the person. he being a guilty sinner has to offer an asham offering which does not mean that it is a bloody one. 

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IR_2017

136 Posts
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September 15, 2021 - 6:43 am
“For Israel and Judah have not been forsaken by their G-d, the L-RD Almighty, though their land is full of אָשָׁ֔ם  / asham / guilt before the Holy One of Israel.”  NIV, Jeremiah 51:6. 
 
 

 

no mention of offering a sacrifice

 

so it could be bloodless and bloody, but when it is bloody, what does it mean?

 

The wrongdoings for which an אשמות / ashamot could be brought are listed in ** you do not have permission to see this link **:

  • the guilt-offering / אָשָׁ֔ם  / asham for robbery,
  • the guilt-offering אָשָׁ֔ם  / asham for misappropriation [of sacred property],
  • the guilt-offering אָשָׁ֔ם  / asham for [violating] a betrothed maidservant,
  • the guilt-offering אָשָׁ֔ם  / asham brought by a nazir [who had become tamé / ritually impure by contact with a cadaver],
  • the guilt-offering אָשָׁ֔ם  / asham brought by a m’tzora [after his purification], 
  • and a guilt-offering אָשָׁ֔ם  / asham brought in a case of doubt.

 

 

 

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IR_2017

136 Posts
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September 15, 2021 - 6:45 am

a SICK ANIMAL accustomed to illness cannot be an asham,this would be a violation.

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IR_2017

136 Posts
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September 15, 2021 - 6:49 am

this “bearing ” language now starts to make sense. no matter how badly the servant has been whooped, god “carried ” him and made him “bear” the whooping and STILL survive.

this has nothing to do with vicarious atonement. 

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Stephen
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September 15, 2021 - 10:54 pm

I will leave it up to the Hebrew scholars to argue over how accurate a translation it is but I will say that as far as the English language goes Isaiah 53 is surely one of the finest hours for the translators of the KJV.  

Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the Lord revealed?

For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.

He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.

But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all…[etc]

Word music!  The subtlety of that “acquainted with grief”  makes me sigh(In this passage lies the mastery of the colon and the semi-colon for the few who still care about such things.) 

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