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Samuel did not anoint Saul and David.
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Steefen
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April 17, 2024 - 5:02 pm

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Dr. Ehrman:
The last great prophet Samuel is the one who anointed both Saul and his successor David as King of Israel.

Steve Campbell, author of Historical Accuracy (2021):
The historically accurate King Saul was Labayu/Labaya.

Labayu/a was from the 14th century BCE
David was from the 10th century BCE.

Historical Accuracy, Section B: The Biblical United Kingdom of Saul, David, and Solomon
B1. United Kingdom of: Labayu and Saul
ps 54-67

No prophet could anoint a person from the 14th century B.C.E., then a different person from the 10th century B.C.E.

Historians must use a Post-Rosetta Stone Perspective on the Hebrew Bible, taking into account the value added by Egyptology.
In the case of Labaya/u and King Saul, see: The Amarna Letters. William L. Moran, editor and translator. The John Hopkins University Press, Baltimore, 1992 (English-language edition).

Also see, Manley, Bill. The Seventy Great Mysteries of Ancient Egypt. Thames & Hudson, 2003.

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Robert
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April 18, 2024 - 10:30 am
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Steefen
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April 18, 2024 - 1:50 pm

Jewish Virtual Library:

Abimelech (Heb. אֲבִימֶלֶך; “the [Divine] Father is King” or “the [Divine] King is Father”), the king of Gerar, and the male offspring of Gideon the Abiezrite by his Shechemite concubine (Judg. 8:31). During the period of the Judges, Abimelech became the ruler of Shechem through the support of his mother’s family and the local oligarchy (“the lords of Shechem”; Judg. 9:2–3 et al.) who financed the hiring of a regiment of “worthless and reckless fellows” (9:4). With their aid, Abimelech murdered all but one of the 70 sons of Gideon (see Jotham ) to eliminate possible claims to the leadership of Shechem. He had reason for apprehension because of Gideon’s special connections with this city.

The Bible does not count Abimelech among the Judges. He is not credited with having “saved” Israel. The placing of his story in the Book of Judges is apparently due to its connection with the traditions about the house of Gideon. At any rate, Abimelech maintained close ties with the Israelites, since he “ruled [not ‘judged’] over Israel three years” (9:22). It is probable that the Manassites submitted to him because of his paternal lineage, though it is possible that he attained power solely by means of the support of his hired regiment. It would seem that Abimelech’s connection with the Israelites did play a decisive role in contributing to his election as a ruler of Shechem. The preservation of normal relations with Israel was of vital importance to Canaanite Shechem which existed as a foreign enclave within the boundaries of the tribe of Manasseh.

According to the narrative, the “lords of Shechem” acclaimed Abimelech “king” over them (9:6). However, all indications point to the fact that the title “king” was used because of the lack of a more appropriate term for the type of ruler that existed in various cities in Syria and Ereẓ Israel who performed the functions and exercised the authority of a king. A ruler of this kind was chosen by the municipal institutions. There is evidence that the ruler was dependent on the city’s institutions, which guarded their own status and power.

Other non-monarchal rulers governed in Shechem at different times: Hamor the Hivite, ruler of Shechem in the days of Jacob (Gen. 34:2), was “chief of the country”; Lab’ayu, chief of Shechem during the 14th century B.C.E., known from the el-Amarna letters, was another such example.

Abimelech appears in several incidents in connection with Abraham and Isaac.

Each of these patriarchs, fearing for his personal safety, represents his wife as his sister. Sarah’s honor is saved through a dream theophany in which Abimelech’s life is threatened; timely detection of the subterfuge preserves Rebekah’s virtue. In both instances the king’s integrity is manifest and he is righteously indignant at the deceit (Gen. 20; 26:1–11).

Abimelech is also involved with both patriarchs in quarrels over wells (21:25; 26:15–16, 18–21). In both events he is accompanied by Phicol, chief of his troops (21:22, 32; 26:26), and concludes treaties (21:27–32; 26:28–31).

Also, Beer-Sheba figures on each occasion (21:31; 26:33). The detailed similarities between the two stories and the resemblances of both to that of Genesis 12:10–20 have generally led critical scholars to assign Genesis 20–21 to the e source and Genesis 12 and 26 to J, regarding all three narratives as variants of a single tradition.

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In the Aggadah

Abimelech was referred to as a righteous Gentile (Mid. Ps. 34). His attempted seizure of Sarah is explained by the fact that he was childless, and that he hoped to be blessed with offspring by marrying such a pious woman (PdRE 26). Among his punishments for his sin were that ruffians entered his house, that boils erupted on his body (Gen. R. 64:9), and that his household became barren (BK 92a). Abimelech, however, clearly did not consider himself to be the only one at fault. According to the aggadic commentary on his words “Behold it is for thee a covering of the eyes” (Gen. 20:16), he said to Abraham “You covered my eyes (i.e., by saying that Sarah was your sister), therefore the son which you will beget will be of covered eyes (i.e., blind).” This prophecy was fulfilled in Isaac’s old age (Gen. R. 52:12). The aggadic treatment of Isaac’s relations with Abimelech is briefer. It records that, although he had heard of Rebekah’s great beauty, Abimelech remembered his previous punishment, and therefore left her alone (Ag. Ber. 20). However, once Isaac had become so wealthy that people kept saying: “Rather the dung of Isaac’s mules, than Abimelech’s gold and silver,” he became jealous, and claimed that Isaac’s wealth was derived from his favors (Gen. R. 64:7).

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The biblical scholar Kenneth Kitchen argues that, from the conquest of Canaan by Joshua until the formation of the first Kingdom of Israel and Judah (c. 1150–1025 BCE), the Israelite tribes may have formed a loose confederation. In this conception, no central government would have existed but in times of crisis, the people would have been led by ad hoc chieftains, known as judges (shoftim).[7] However, some scholars are uncertain whether such a role existed in ancient Israel.[8][9]

Working with the chronology in Judges, Payne points out that although the timescale of Judges is indicated by Jephthah’s statement (Judges 11:26) that Israel had occupied the land for around 300 years, some of the judges overlapped one another. Claiming that Deborah’s victory has been confirmed as taking place in 1216 from archaeology undertaken at Hazor, he suggests that the period may have lasted from c. 1382 to c. 1063.[10]

= = = = = =

Again:
Other non-monarchal rulers governed in Shechem at different times: Hamor the Hivite, ruler of Shechem in the days of Jacob (Gen. 34:2), was “chief of the country”; Lab’ayu, chief of Shechem during the 14th century B.C.E., known from the el-Amarna letters, was another such example.

Other than Abimelech, there was Hamor and Labayu. Abimelech is not Hamor or Labayu.

The stronger argument is that Labayu/a was Saul *not* Abemelech ben Gideon.

Of course there are differences between Labaya in the Amarna Letters and Saul in the book of Samuel.
The Amarna Letters have more prestige as history than the Book of Samuel has. Kitchens is not saying anything to strengthen the argument that the bible is more historical than the Amarna Letters.

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Steefen
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April 18, 2024 - 2:29 pm

With you advancing the position that the period of the Judges happened during the time of the Amarna pharaohs,
with the Judges coming after Moses, Moses cannot have a showdown with Rameses II who reigned after the Amarna period.

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Steefen
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April 18, 2024 - 2:33 pm

Without bringing Rohl into the picture. Anyone seeing the Amarna Letters would recognize
the biblical story of Saul and his son who was a friend of the biblical King David
in the Labaya letters.

And, one would recognize the period before the United Kingdom shows god did not free the Hebrews from Egyps’s domination and influence.

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Stephen
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April 19, 2024 - 3:21 pm

As I get older my background in literary studies rears its head, hoary and ancient. These tales were created for a purpose, a strategy and an agenda. Questions of historicity are interesting and even important perhaps but far better it is to let the story work it’s magic. Through the power of the active imagination the story comes alive in your mind and transforms your consciousness. The impulse to tie off every string is understandable but should be resisted. It is not given to us to be able to examine the back of the Mona Lisa’s head.

As the great German mystic Meister Eckhart asked, What difference does it make whether Jesus was born of Mary if he is not born in me? Of course there are drawbacks to asking such questions. Eckhart spent the last months of his life under the eyes of the Inquisition, attentive to such impertinence.

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Steefen
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April 19, 2024 - 4:27 pm

If the biblical King David reigned 1010-970 BCE
If the biblical King Solomon reigned 970-931 BCE
One might think that then the Hebrews stopped bowing to their vassal pharaohs seven times in greetings of letters.
They were finally set free from Egypt.
Ope, nope, 925 BCE, there is the Palestinian campaign of Egypt’s leader Shoshenk I of the 22nd Dynasty.

The 25th Dynasty (747-656 BCE) brought Assyria to Palestine.
God finally frees the Hebrews from the Egyptians for Judah to be defeated by Assyria.

From 925 BCE to 747 BCE, The Hebrews did not defeat Egypt nor have an Exodus from Egyptian dominance or influence in Palestine.

The Book of Exodus is not the historically accurate, successful exodus the Bible would have you believe.

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