Interested in *reliable* studies/info about dating of and archaeological evidence for proof that ancient Sumerian texts were written before the Hebrew bible and that Greek mythology was in place before Christians came to be. Any links pertaining to this, whether Dr. Ehrman’s writings or any other would be appreciated. Thanks.
Here are a few books by reputable scholars –
Ancient Near Eastern Thought and the Old Testament: Introducing the Conceptual World of the Hebrew Bible
The Treasures of Darkness: A History of Mesopotamian Religion
The Ark Before Noah: Decoding the Story of the Flood
Stories from Ancient Canaan, Second Edition
Not only do the actual artifacts differ in age by 1000 years, with Sumerian ones older, but the story is different. I have heard the Sumerian story of creating Man and Woman is the inspiration for the Jewish one. The word for rib was the same as pain, so it was a pun! A regular Sumerian Shakespeare!
FocusMyView said
Not only do the actual artifacts differ in age by 1000 years, with Sumerian ones older, but the story is different. I have heard the Sumerian story of creating Man and Woman is the inspiration for the Jewish one. The word for rib was the same as pain, so it was a pun! A regular Sumerian Shakespeare!
Sumerian cuneiforms are not quite an alphabet. I refer you to what i wrote on the subject under another topic of the same forum “Hebrew Bible”
I do apologize for using the word “word” as if there was an alphabet. I did not mean to mislead anyone.
The Ketef Hinnom scrolls have but the smallest of passages that are very nearly the same as a line in Deutoronomy, and very similar to many other passages. So it is not clear that the scroll was quoting Deutoronomy or if Deutoronomy included this very popular phrasing.
One more thought on the subject just occurred to me. So obvious that I could not see it.
Sumerian legends are written in Sumerian (or Akkadian), both of which were extinct before Hebrew came on the scene as a language.
That Greek gods and goddesses were prominent can be found in Maccabees, where a Greek ruler tried to put one of their gods in the Temple to be worshipped there. And Maccabees came before New Testament.
Jen said
Interested in *reliable* studies/info about dating of and archaeological evidence for proof that ancient Sumerian texts were written before the Hebrew bible and that Greek mythology was in place before Christians came to be. Any links pertaining to this, whether Dr. Ehrman’s writings or any other would be appreciated. Thanks.
Bart Just touched on this in a recent post re: Noah’s flood.
I can’t say how reliable he is (judging by the scholarly consensus, it doesn’t seem too credible) but take a look at Dennis R MacDonald’s works. You will probably find that most of his followers simply don’t understand what he is arguing.
I haven’t read his books so can’t offer any assessment; however, if you poke around your bound to find an interesting exchange
between Him and Margaret Mitchell (Not Gone with the Wind Mitchell). It seems to make sense, however, that the greek authors of the NT had greek educations and would probably have used greek literary devices, themes etc.
Jen said
Interested in *reliable* studies/info about dating of and archaeological evidence for proof that ancient Sumerian texts were written before the Hebrew bible and that Greek mythology was in place before Christians came to be. Any links pertaining to this, whether Dr. Ehrman’s writings or any other would be appreciated. Thanks.
Dear Jen, I have researched many of these topics you asked about (Dec. 3, 2014) at my website and provide scholarly quotations and bibliography. See ** you do not have permission to see this link ** which has been on the internet since December of 2000. I cover the pre-biblical origins of the Hebrew Bible based on archaeological findings and the pre-biblical origins of the New Testament as recast motifs derived from a Hellenized Judaism, which assimilated various Hellenistic Greek concepts about man and his relationship with God. Jesus’ notion that one should give away all one’s wealth and seek a virtuous life appears to be a recasting of concepts from the Hellenistic Greek Cynic school which flourished at Jesus’ time. I cite the research of PhD scholars on the Cynic Movement and its concepts espoused by Jesus and his followers. I am a retired Educator (born 1943), having taught History, Geography, Art, Art History in the Department of Defense Over Seas Schools System from 1970 to 2002, having taught in Scotland, the Netherlands, England, South Korea and West Germany. I hold a Masters in Education from California Polytechnic State College, San Luis Obispo, 1968.
Jesus’ notion that one should give away all one’s wealth and seek a virtuous life appears to be a recasting of concepts from the Hellenistic Greek Cynic school which flourished at Jesus’ time.
While I appreciate the attractiveness of this viewpoint I think Jesus’ values sprang from his Jewish apocalypticism. The Kingdom is coming soon and in preparation for it the community must live by kingdom values. This accounts for the communism of the early Christian movement. It was only with the delay of the Parousia and the loss of apocalyptic fervor that Jesus’ teachings began to be interpreted as efforts to make society “better,” a concern completely lacking in the historical Jesus – or Paul.
I wouldn’t discount the cynic influence without asking what exact “kingdom values” required poverty?
Often the poor were seen as lazy or fools. Abraham is considered a great man of faith, but his only redeeming value seems to be his wealth. He even gains wealth while cowering in fear as he sends his wife to two different harems!!
Some of the prophets themselves seem to go without, and refusing gifts is a value for them (and Judas, but not Jesus, 😉 ), but that does not seem the general standard.
Robert said
Cynic philosophers valued poverty as part of their philosophical detachment from worldly influence and as a critique normal societal values. This isn’t really the same as what is found in the tradition to which Jesus belonged. There was a strong current in the prophetic tradition that severely criticized the lack of concern of the rich and powerful for the poor, widows, orphans, strangers, etc. This was intensified in apocalyptic Judaism, in which evil would soon be vanquished and the roles of the rich and powerful would be reversed with that of the poor and disadvantaged. The first will be last and the last will be first. This is a matter of divine justice in the coming Kingdom of God.
My understanding is that the Old Testament stresses that God rewards the faithful and righteous with immediate blessings, NOT deferred blessings, as is the case with Christianity. The OT teaches that God will NOT allow a righteous man to be destroyed by his enemies, instead his enemies will be delivered into his hands for destruction. David said he knew he was acceptable to God because caused him to be victorious over his enemies! Christianity, in opposition to the Old Testament, says Christians must expect revilement, scorn, persecution, poverty, and death, but if faithful till their deaths, they will receive deferred rewards in a life after the ressurection. Jesus’ revilement, scourging, mocking, and execution would be regarded as proofs he was NOT righteous, for God in the OT said he would NOT allow the righteous to be overcome by the unrighteous! God in the OT showed Israel His favor by rewarding them with prosperity, healthy children, abundant crops, victories over national enemies. In the OT God showed Israel His disfavor by having famine for his people, disease, crop failures, and spontaneously aborted children (still births). The NT turns upside down and inside out the understanding of God’s signs of favor and disfavor for his followers in the OT! Jesus’ “poverty” would be regarded as a sign of disfavor from God in the OT.
Jesus’ “poverty” would be regarded as a sign of disfavor from God in the OT.
This is precisely the attitude, riches as a sign of God’s favor, that Jesus is critiquing in Matthew 19. Interestingly this is exactly the attitude of most modern Americans is it not? Who privileges “success” more than Americans? (Even the Christians.)
BDEhrman
FreedomBen
evgendob
Robert
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