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The Mesopotamian flood characters vs. the Bible's names and narrative for the flood.
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Steefen
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August 8, 2024 - 2:42 pm

For the sake of historical accuracy, with the Mesopotamian flood account being the earlier account should it have priority; and when it does, the Noah story is just a non-historical or historical fiction account?

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Steefen
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August 11, 2024 - 1:01 pm

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Steefen
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August 11, 2024 - 1:05 pm

No global flood.
Localized floods at different times.
Melting glaciers.

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Steefen
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August 11, 2024 - 1:12 pm

Sumerian Flood Myth – Eridu Genesis – The Flood Tablet from the Epic of Gilgamesh (Atrahasis used to fill in the gaps)

Cities were created after people – The god Enki, overseer of Eridu.

Destroy people because there are too many of them and they are too loud.
Well, just give them a curfew. You don’t have to kill them all.

Enlil sends a drought, a plague, then a famine.

Ziudsura was the last king of Sumer and he was located in Shuruppak.

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Steefen
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August 11, 2024 - 1:18 pm

Wait, this flood is only for 7 days and 7 nights.

Then there is the god Shamash a sun god who comes out after the rain.

Next, there is the Genesis flood narrative–which we all know.

Third Myth: The Ancient Greek Flood Myth

There is more than one flood myth in Greek History.

Deucalion and Pyrrha

The story of Deucalion and Pyrrha resembles a lot to the Biblical story of Noah’s Ark. This is the version of the ancient Greeks in their attempt to purify the old world from its sins and give birth to a new race of human. The amazing thing is the similarities between the two stories, as both of them use a disastrous flood as a means to make the humankind extinct. The few people that are saved from the flood have managed to do so in a boat and many days after the rain had stopped did they manage to step on land.

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Steefen
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August 11, 2024 - 1:31 pm

Chinese Flood Myth in Two Versions

The Yellow River overflowed.

Yu the Great was the hero here.

Yu the Great or Yu the Engineer was a legendary king in ancient China who was famed for “the first successful state efforts at flood control,” his establishment of the Xia dynasty which inaugurated dynastic rule in China, and his upright moral character. Wikipedia
Died: 2025 BC, Xianglu Peak, Shaoxing, China

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Steefen
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August 11, 2024 - 1:43 pm

WAIT, go back to Mesopotamia

The Euphrates and Tigris often resulted in destructive floods, hurricanes, torrential downpours, inundating of villages and cities, and deaths (Michael 32). Mesopotamia was largely open to the effects of floods unlike Egypt was protected by natural barriers.

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Initially, some assumed with great eagerness that the flood levels at Ur and Kish were identical and provided marvelous evidence for a historical kernel of the Genesis Flood story (Peake, 1930), but the enthusiasm could not be maintained. The level of the great flood at Ur was sandwiched between remains of the Al Ubaid cultural phase, the last purely prehistoric period of southern Mesopotamia, and a layer of debris from the early Protoliterate period. The great Ur flood, thus, can be dated with a high degree of certainty to about 3500 BCE. Kish, however, produced evidence of two floods at the end of the Early Dynastic I and beginning of the Early Dynastic II periods, around 3000 to 2900 BCE, and a still more impressive flood dating to the Early Dynastic III period, around 2600 BCE. All three of the Kish floods were much later than the great flood at Ur. Watelin argued that the earliest of these three was the deluge of the Bible and cuneiform literature.

Within a few years, excavations of a third Mesopotamian site, Shuruppak, also uncovered a flood stratum (Schmidt, 1931). It is of particular interest because, according to the Mesopotamian legend, Shuruppak was the home of Ziusudra, the Sumerian Noah. (The Sumerian Ziusudra means “life of long days.” The Akkadian equivalent, Utnapishtim, is “he found life,” while the alternative Atra-hasis means “exceedingly wise.”) This flood level separated late Protoliterate and Early Dynastic I remains and dates from around 2950 to 2850 BCE. Perhaps, but not certainly, the Shuruppak flood may be equated with the earliest flood at Kish. No other Mesopotamian sites have produced flood remains of significance (Mallowan, 1964).

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Food at Ur – 3,500 BCE
2 Foods at Kish – only 3,000 to 2,900 BCE and 2,600 BCE
Sharuppak flood 2950 to 2850 BCE

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Steefen
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August 11, 2024 - 2:07 pm

Okay, back to China and the second flood story.

Some divine dragons were in the Yellow River.
The dragons caused the flooding.

The two conjoined figures are Fuxi and Nuwa, a brother and sister who, according to a Chinese foundation myth, were the only survivors of a great flood. Charged with repopulating the world, Fuxi and Nuwa created vast numbers of clay figures, which they were able to bring to life with some divine assistance.

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The Maya Flood Legend from the Popol Vuh

The wooden people were drowned by flood.

But later, people were made out of corn and the provided the needed gratitude to the gods. These people were called the Mayans.

The Maya developed their first civilization in the Preclassic period. Scholars continue to discuss when this era of Maya civilization began. Maya occupation at Cuello (modern Belize) has been carbon dated to around 2600 BC.

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August 11, 2024 - 2:10 pm

Indian flood myth of Manu and Matsya in the Shatapatha Brahmana where Vishnu in fish form warns Manu (human) and tells him to store all the grains and animals in a boat to escape the great flood that is coming to destroy. Manu and seven sages survive as Vishnu pulls them to safety.

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Manu, in the mythology of India, the first man, and the legendary author of an important Sanskrit law code, the Manu-smriti (Laws of Manu). The name is cognate with the Indo-European “man” and also has an etymological connection with the Sanskrit verb man-, “to think.” Manu appears in the Vedas, the sacred literature of Hinduism, as the performer of the first sacrifice. He is also known as the first king, and most rulers of medieval India traced their genealogy back to him, either through his son (the solar line) or his daughter (the lunar line).

In the story of the great flood, Manu combines the characteristics of the Hebrew Bible figures of Noah, who preserved life from extinction in a great flood, and Adam, the first man. The Shatapatha Brahmana recounts how he was warned by a fish, to whom he had done a kindness, that a flood would destroy the whole of humanity. He therefore built a boat, as the fish advised. When the flood came, he tied this boat to the fish’s horn and was safely steered to a resting place on a mountaintop. When the flood receded, Manu, the sole human survivor, performed a sacrifice, pouring oblations of butter and sour milk into the waters. After a year there was born from the waters a woman who announced herself as “the daughter of Manu.” These two then became the ancestors of a new human race to replenish the earth. In the Mahabharata (“Great Epic of the Bharata Dynasty”), the fish is identified with the god Brahma, while in the Puranas (“Ancient Lore”) it is Matsya, the fish incarnation of Lord Vishnu.

Matsya (Sanskrit: मत्स्य, lit. ‘fish’) is the fish avatar of the Hindu god Vishnu. Often described as the first of Vishnu’s ten primary avatars, Matsya is described to have rescued the first man, Manu, from a great deluge.

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List of Flood Myths

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Steefen
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August 11, 2024 - 3:20 pm

Dr. Ehrman

There is a flood account older than the Noah flood account.

Irving Finkel concluded, “the iconic story of the Flood, Noah, and the Ark as we know it today certainly originated in the landscape of ancient Mesopotamia, modern Iraq.” Linguistic parallels between Noah’s and Atrahasis’ arks have also been noted.

Food at Ur – 3,500 BCE
2 Foods at Kish – 3,000 to 2,900 BCE and 2,600 BCE
Sharuppak flood 2950 to 2850 BCE

As a historian, have you written about the Mesopotamian floods [Eridu Genesis – The Flood Tablet from the Epic of Gilgamesh (Atrahasis used to fill in the gaps)]

Have you written about the Ancient Greek flood in the story of Deucalion (son of Prometheus) and Pyrrha?

The Great Courses has a course called Creation Stores of the Ancient World that speaks about the Atrahasis account, but not Zeus.

Jesus would have to be tied to the original account, the moral of the story, and the correct God.

Thank you.

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Steefen
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August 11, 2024 - 11:55 pm

Not the Greek Flood Story but the Greek Creation Story …

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