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Trnaslating God.
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FocusMyView

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May 8, 2019 - 8:48 pm

Translating God. In what manuscripts are the old names El Elohim, YHWH, Adonai, El Shaddai found? When did they stop being used? 

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Robert
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May 8, 2019 - 9:20 pm
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FocusMyView

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May 8, 2019 - 9:50 pm

So some of our earliest manuscripts, coming from a Greek tradition, translated it to their version of God and Lord early on. But the later Masoretic manuscripts have what we can consider accurate still have the Hebrew names of God. Is that how you see it? 

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Robert
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May 8, 2019 - 11:07 pm
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dgorden

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August 9, 2019 - 5:24 pm

Some years ago, when I was attending synagogue regularly, the rabbi pronounced the Tetragrammaton for the entire congregation. That pronunciation was preceded with a lengthy explanation of why this was not taking The Name in vain, and why it was important for everyone to hear The Name pronounced at least once in their lifetime.

What we were taught about the Masoretic text was that they did not change the Scriptures; they simply added a pronunciation guide (so to speak…pun intended).   It is true that:

“They were scribes but also traditionalist theologians who wanted to fix the exact meaning of the text to eliminate ambiguity of interpretation.”

But, that is more of a by-product of establishing a pronunciation rather than establishing a doctrine.

I take a “small” objection to the statement

“…but the masoretes were not the free-thinkers of Judaism”.

They did bind definitions to some words that could have more than one meaning (Exodus 23:19 is a good example בַּֽחֲלֵ֥ב without the vowels could be fat or milk), but initially they were thinking out-of-the box. Adding vowels to what is considered Lashon Hakodesh (The Holy Tongue) was quite radical in their time. In the end they made the Scriptures more accessible, Hebrew easier to learn, and eliminated some heretical interpretations of the Scriptures.

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Robert
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August 9, 2019 - 10:56 pm
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dgorden

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August 12, 2019 - 1:34 pm

 Robert Said “…that’s part of what I meant by their not being ‘free thinkers’, perhaps an insensitive remark…”

I don’t find the comment insensitive, nor do I entirely disagree.  What I was attempting to point out is that the Masoretes did a great deal of good for everyone who studies the Torah. I made my comments because I have heard so much to the contrary from non-Jewish armchair theologians. (Please do not take offense, I am not calling you an armchair theologian.) 

And, there could be an entirely different philosophical discussion as to how much free thinking should be allowed within a religion. Judaism, although known for a wide range of free thought in the many areas, has its areas that are immovable and immutable. The work the Masoretes did aided in keeping Judaism from splintering into multiple factions / denominations / sects, the way the Christianity has done.  

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Stephen
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August 12, 2019 - 2:06 pm

dgorden said

 Robert Said “…that’s part of what I meant by their not being ‘free thinkers’, perhaps an insensitive remark…”

I don’t find the comment insensitive, nor do I entirely disagree.  What I was attempting to point out is that the Masoretes did a great deal of good for everyone who studies the Torah. I made my comments because I have heard so much to the contrary from non-Jewish armchair theologians. (Please do not take offense, I am not calling you an armchair theologian.) 

And, there could be an entirely different philosophical discussion as to how much free thinking should be allowed within a religion. Judaism, although known for a wide range of free thought in the many areas, has its areas that are immovable and immutable. The work the Masoretes did aided in keeping Judaism from splintering into multiple factions / denominations / sects, the way the Christianity has done.    

How much of Judaism’s success here is a byproduct of marginalization and persecution?  If Judaism had been in the ascendency it probably would have been much more difficult to keep the reins on.   

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Robert
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August 12, 2019 - 2:56 pm
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dnorris37

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August 19, 2019 - 7:07 am

dgorden said

 Robert Said “…that’s part of what I meant by their not being ‘free thinkers’, perhaps an insensitive remark…”

[…]

And, there could be an entirely different philosophical discussion as to how much free thinking should be allowed within a religion. Judaism, although known for a wide range of free thought in the many areas, has its areas that are immovable and immutable. The work the Masoretes did aided in keeping Judaism from splintering into multiple factions / denominations / sects, the way the Christianity has done.    

It is important to mention, regarding free and critical thinking, that Judaism is an ortho-praxis and not an orthodoxy.
Orthodoxy generally results in schisms and sects; Ortho-praxis, much less, since it is above all, something eminently practical, physical, earthly and not of speculative metaphysics.

I also recommend in this regard, to study in detail the Haskalah, often termed Jewish Enlightenment and its effect on the free-thinking, rationalism and institutional and family love of the Jews for the knowledge of the nature of Nature.
Perhaps that is one of the explanations of the curious phenomenon that consists of the amazing and totally disproportionate presence of people from Jewish culture and tradition on the list of Nobel Prizes in Natural Sciences.

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FocusMyView

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November 19, 2019 - 9:26 pm

Is the NOG Bible accurate for finding the original names of God, even if its not the best translation for other uses? 

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Robert
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November 20, 2019 - 3:18 am
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FocusMyView

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November 21, 2019 - 6:31 pm

Psalms is so much fun in NOG! 

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