El is not one God for monotheistic believers until 7th Century BCE.
El is the head of a pantheon of Canaanite gods.
El found in Sinai is not necessarily one God for monotheistic Hebrew slaves led by Moses.
We look at the origins of the Semitic alphabet and discover its presence in Sinai where a Semitic alphabet was used by Moses to record 10 laws of the Hebrew god.
“Interestingly, at Serabit el-Khadim (mine M) one of the most intriguing inscriptions was found, which reads: ‘l ‘lm, “god the eternal.” Frank Moore Cross was the first to recognize the reading of this text, and his reading was subsequently accepted by William F. Albright and others. This same epithet for God is also found in the Abraham narratives at Genesis 21: 33).”
Hoffmeier, James K. Ancient Israel in Sinai: The Evidence for the Authenticity of the Wilderness Tradition. Chapter 8: “The Sinai Legislation,” Section II: “The Origins of the Semitic Alphabet.” p. 179.
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According to The Oxford Companion to World Mythology,
It seems almost certain that the God of the Jews evolved gradually from the Canaanite El [supreme deity of the Canaanite pantheon], who was in all likelihood the “God of Abraham.” This god had a wife until she was divorced from Judaism in the 7th century BCE (2 Kings 23; 15) [long after Moses, long after Saul, and hundreds of years after Solomon].
Wikipedia article for El (deity), my comments in brackets.
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Since Saul was in correspondence with the monotheist, Akhen-aten (1340 BCE), Hebrew monotheism should not have had to develop as late as the 7th century BCE.
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Reference:
Netflix
BBC / The Bible’s Buried Secrets with Dr. Francesca Stavrakopoulou
One IMDB Review
Expansion, not remake, of its Nova namesake
And, in the episode “Did God Have a Wife?”, Ms. Stavrakopoulou puts together three implications from the 2008 Nova program: the link between Canaanite theology and Israelite theology, the implication that Israel was really a subset of Canaanite polity and that the Israelis re-invented themselves during the Babylonian Exile, shedding their Canaanite roots and becoming truly monotheistic only on The Return.
What the Nova program hinted at she makes explicit. Especially in terms of the mechanism that shed Canaanite polytheism’s nascent gender equality in favor of Patriarchal male dominance, affecting Judaism, Christianity and Islam not for the better.
On a broader note: the mid-first millennium B.C. seems to be a watershed for such transitions: conservative Rome beginning to overshadow liberal Etruscan culture, the Greeks evolving into elitist patriarchies, Egypt floundering. Fertile ground for a history PhD dissertation.
I have always thought El Elohim was sort of a title rather than a name. See my post on this blog about the nameless God.
One problem with identifying monotheism is that the concept of monotheism or polytheism did not exist for the Bible authors to discuss. Most of the various mentions of worshipping only YHWH do not concretely mean monotheism as far as I can tell. They simply point to YHWH being the national God of Israel, the God of their homeland.
Does Akhenaton’s destruction of the other temples and glorification mean that he believed there was only one god? If only we had his words on the matter. He seemed to believe in a presence behind the sun that was the crucial aspect of reality that he hoped to gain favor with. Maybe he was the first deist!
Whatever Akhenaton believed, it seemed to die with him. If Saul was 1300’s BC, it would be nice to see some evidence of a monotheism from that time period if we are going to say this person was a monotheist.
The Israelites seem to be a unique people, having set themselves apart from the Canaanites. (Even if they were 100% Canaanite at first, their culture became distinct). Perhaps its the internal mechanism of preserving their distinctiveness that develops monotheism, but that is another subject altogether.
I think the evidence for a monotheism is still weak for 7th century Israelites and Judahites. Certainly they followed YHWH as the lead god. But I think the Dt and Dt historian are the first distinctly local writers, using sources found in neighboring lands. So if these writers were monotheists, it seems lees likely that polytheistic hints would have made it into their works. Look at the incident that is parallel to the Mesha stele. The Moabites were successful against the Israelites because they sacrificed a child to their own national God. Even if you believe in far earlier writers, this incident is 8th or 9th century BC, so it is written about then or after then, using the context of a foreign god existing and having the power to grant victory. How does that make it into the Dt Historian account if he is a monotheist?
I would add that those who considered themselves both Arameans and Judahites worshipped YHWH and his wife in Elaphantine, circa 400 BCE.
As an aside: IF the Torah is a product of Hellenic Alexandria as proposed by Gmirkin, perhaps that is where we would find this perfectly untestable monotheism born?
FocusMyView said
I have always thought El Elohim was sort of a title rather than a name. See my post on this blog about the nameless God.One problem with identifying monotheism is that the concept of monotheism or polytheism did not exist for the Bible authors to discuss. Most of the various mentions of worshipping only YHWH do not concretely mean monotheism as far as I can tell. They simply point to YHWH being the national God of Israel, the God of their homeland.
Does Akhenaton’s destruction of the other temples and glorification mean that he believed there was only one god? If only we had his words on the matter. He seemed to believe in a presence behind the sun that was the crucial aspect of reality that he hoped to gain favor with. Maybe he was the first deist!
Whatever Akhenaton believed, it seemed to die with him. If Saul was 1300’s BC, it would be nice to see some evidence of a monotheism from that time period if we are going to say this person was a monotheist.
The Israelites seem to be a unique people, having set themselves apart from the Canaanites. (Even if they were 100% Canaanite at first, their culture became distinct). Perhaps its the internal mechanism of preserving their distinctiveness that develops monotheism, but that is another subject altogether.
I think the evidence for a monotheism is still weak for 7th century Israelites and Judahites. Certainly they followed YHWH as the lead god. But I think the Dt and Dt historian are the first distinctly local writers, using sources found in neighboring lands. So if these writers were monotheists, it seems lees likely that polytheistic hints would have made it into their works. Look at the incident that is parallel to the Mesha stele. The Moabites were successful against the Israelites because they sacrificed a child to their own national God. Even if you believe in far earlier writers, this incident is 8th or 9th century BC, so it is written about then or after then, using the context of a foreign god existing and having the power to grant victory. How does that make it into the Dt Historian account if he is a monotheist?
The Old Testament suggests that as late as the Babylonian Exile beginning circa 587 BC, Judah was NOT Monotheistic, but instead, Polytheistic. How so? The Prophet Jeremiah, who is in exile, in Egypt, upbraids other Jewish refugees about their claim that Judah’s fall to Babylon is because they had been forced to give up sacrificing to the Queen of Heaven, and in anger, she caused the nation to be conquered and have to go into Exile. Jeremiah turns this all about, denying the Queen of Heaven is responsible for their Exile, it is Yahweh (Jer 44:16-20). So, this exchange of views, is for me proof that Judah was NOT a Monotheistic nation yet. True Monotheism would probably arise only AFTER the return from Exile circa 537 BC, under Cyrus the Great of Persia.
…under Cyrus the great of Persia.
I find that line of reasoning fascinating. Been coming across it a lot lately. There are a few variants.
Is this because Cyrus was Zoastrian( or at least family members had Zoastrian names)?
I would push back that Cyrus claimed Marduk was responsible for Babylons conquest by foreigners, probably because Nabonidus had defected to worship the moon God. That does not sound like an attempt to push Zoroastrianism.
Or is it based on the Persian Mandate proposed by Peter Frei where law codes of Egypt were collected by Persian royalty and thus Persians wanted a law code from Yehud? I feel like I undermined that one enough in the way I asked the question.
Steefen said
When do we get monotheism in the Hebrew Bible? 1455 BCE w/ Moses or 7th Century BCE?With Moses, we get henotheism.With 7th Century BCE, the Jews are removed from the land of Canaan and lose their Canaanite theological roots. They truly become monotheistic only on the Return.As long as there are nations stronger than the Tribes of Israel, even empires, the gods of those stronger nations and empires must be recognized. In effect, there is henotheism until there is a global notion of God and no other Gods: globally accepted God or atheism.God of Herod’s Temple ceases to exist with the Parable of the Wicked Tenants (the killing of his servants and son) and the destruction of is Temple. Jupiter Maximus, Sol Invictus, and Astrology survive AD 70.The Chinese zodiac consists of twelve animals that first appeared in the Zhan Guo period [5th century B.C.]. No one knows the exact date as of when the zodiac was essentially created, but they were officially identified during the Han Dynasty [206 B.C.–9 A.D.], which was over 2000 years ago.** you do not have permission to see this link **Chinese Astrology is Lunar Astrology, so in a sense, the Moon becomes a god while in Western Astrology, yes, there is Jupiter and Saturn as planets, there is also the Sun, but there is also Visual Astrology to the extent stars beyond the Sun interact in human affairs.
Steefen wrote: “…the Jews…truly became monotheistic only on the Return.” I agree with Steefen on this, the Return being circa 539 BC under Cyrus of Persia. I understand that the Pentateuch was written circa 562-560 BC (see 2 Kings 25:27) in the Exile, to explain WHY Israel and Judah were removed from their land for NOT observing monotheism, but because they persistently engaged in observing Polytheism. See Jeremiah’s rebuke of Jewish women in the Exile at Tahpanhes, Egypt (circa 537 BC), and their complaint that the Queen of Heaven has caused them to be expelled from their land by the Babylonians for failing to honor her, and honor instead only Jeremiah’s God, Yahweh (Jeremiah 44:1-23). A major theme from Genesis to 2 Kings is the Promised Land, how it came to be given to Israel, how Israel was warned she would be expelled from it by God for practicing Polytheism, and how Israel (and Judah) are justifably now in Exile, fulfilling Moses’ warnings of Exile because of refusals to give up polytheism. However, Jewish/Aramaic texts found in Egypt from the early Persian Period, the 6th-5th centuries BC, reveal that even at that time, some Jews at Elephantine (ancient Syene, today’s Aswan) were still honoring pagan gods and practicing polytheism.
That lower Egypt evidence is the only evidence we have afaik from the time period.
Allow me to propose an idea. monotheism by its very nature threatens polytheism. This the attempt to eradicate Akhenaton from history by the Egyptian priesthood.
Notice that at the first hard evidence of monotheism – presumed to be the biblical texts of the DSS – immediately we supposedly have this monotheistic state emerge from Jerusalem. It plays the various candidates for the thrones of Egypt and Syria against each other, work a fairly brilliant guerilla war where they win one single battle in 20 years but destroy the will of the two Greek empires (Which are caught up in their own civil wars) to dominate that society.
When the Romans, the premier war machine in those days, falls into civil war, the monotheist Herod manages to play the right hand and gains tremendous concessions for monotheism, building a power base that would result in 3 wars of these monotheists against the polytheists. One branch of these monotheists disavows militancy and instead eats the Empire from within, becoming the dominant political force nd destroying polytheism as much as possible. The Islamic branch takes root and dominates much of the world not dominated by the Christian branch.
It seems to me that polytheism, at least as the deciding political force in Judea, did not succeed until fairly late. Perhaps the Maccabees. Maybe it was at work for centuries prior, trying to dominate, but was unsuccessful.
FocusMyView said
Allow me to propose an idea. monotheism by its very nature threatens polytheism.
This would seem to me a statement that is true by its very nature. In polytheism, one might wage battles as to which god or gods are better or stronger or whatever, but the idea that there is only one god necessarily means that there cannot be more than one. Thus, monotheism and polytheism are inherently incompatible, so it would be a battle between the followers of the one god proposed versus all of the followers of all other gods. What may be the surprising outcome is which more or less won that battle, at least in this context. (One might point out that in Catholicism, a form of polytheism still exists in the status granted to saints. Indeed, many of the supposed saints appear to be little more than local deities converted to a role that was more acceptable within the Church as it converted the “heathens.” Certain traditions concerning angels also convey them a sense of power and status that at least approaches them being lesser gods. The obvious complications do not seem to bother adherents. And in many circles there are still troubling debates about the nature of the tradition of the Trinity: God, Jesus and the Holy Ghost.)
So when do you date deutero-Isaiah? Do you also think it was originally written in Greek? Crazy, I know!
I am torn. I want to date EVERYTHING late! 😆.
It may surprise you last time Gmirken responded to one of my questions he was working on an iron age song from the Bible. So he clearly thinks some parts are vestiges of really old poetry.
Isaiah is written as oracles, so that is hard to get a handle on. They are meant to be a little bit mysterious.
I definitely like the fact that the Isaiahs are older than the Torah as five books nearly finalized. Moses gets one mention in a really flimsy add on in one of the last chapters (Trito-Isaiah?) Also, Isaiah only speaks of written laws from Zion, never Sinai. And this laws are bad. Isaiah seems to think of Laws being in the heart.
The Great Scroll of the DSS has a carbon dating range of something like 190 BCE – 50 BCE, so I am pretty sure the handwriting analysis dated it January 1st 190 BCE. 😉
I will have to reread DeuteroIsaiah, see if it’s as monotheistic as I remember it.
JAS
In polytheism, one might wage battles as to which god or gods are better or stronger or whatever, but the idea that there is only one god necessarily means that there cannot be more than one. Thus, monotheism and polytheism are inherently incompatible, so it would be a battle between the followers of the one god proposed versus all of the followers of all other gods.
Steefen
At a very, very, very high level there may be one god. Instead of thinking vertically, let me throw it to the side by saying, in another dimension and at a high level, there may be one god.
On Earth, I can only accept a near theology of polytheism. From Earth, there may be acceptable a very far theology of polytheism.
I’ll give you specifics.
Earth is a god.
On Earth, humanity is a god.
Intervening in humanity are the Solar System gods.
Also intervening in humanity are the galactic Gods, constellations and certain stars in constellations.
The constellations we see with our eyes without telescopes are a small part of our galaxy. Yes, there are astrologers that speak of an effect from the galactic center. I’m not one of those astrologers because I have not explored that far into the divinity space.
Spiral galaxy can be a type of divinity. Non-spiral galaxies can be a different type of divinity.
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In the dimension of conscious that is dis-incarnate, there are different beings on a scale of experience and wisdom. Just as Earthlings have gods, beings in the dis-incarnate dimension have different levels of divinity.
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JAS
One might point out that in Catholicism, a form of polytheism still exists in the status granted to saints. Indeed, many of the supposed saints appear to be little more than local deities converted to a role that was more acceptable within the Church as it converted the “heathens.”
Steefen
Yes, yes, the whole thing about the very powerful and very rich people being gods. Just to get on your board about humans capable of being deities, even though it is not mostly the rich and powerful who are Catholic saints. Okay, now that I’m with you for going there: human saints as deities, I think gods must have geological power.
Then you will say, humans seed clouds to produce rain and humans can cause forest fires, humans have some geological power; and, humans are destroying the planet and planetary life with plastic and cutting down the Brazilian Rain Forest.
Alright! Humans do not have the power of a god to create a nursery of baby stars. Humans on Earth have not created a nebula. Humans have not created a star with planets revolving around a star, with some of the planets having moons.
Allow me to propose an idea. monotheism by its very nature threatens polytheism. This the attempt to eradicate Akhenaton from history by the Egyptian priesthood.
Well we need to be leery about ascribing fixed modern demarcations to these ancient sources. Ancient thought was unsystematic in the extreme. It’s very very arguable as to whether Akhenaton was a monotheist in the sense you mean. He is probably best thought of as a henotheist. Of course henotheism survived very late in the Jewish tradition.
An example that may illustrate the problem is Hinduism. It is generally thought of as polytheistic. In Hinduism the gods do exist yet they are not ultimate reality. For the orthodox Hindu ultimate reality is impersonal. There is an underlying oneness beyond the gods. For this reason many orthodox Hindus would claim to be monotheists! My girlfriend is from Southern India and they honor Lord Shiva. On first blush you would think Lord Shiva was the most powerful god but as high as he is esteemed by them Shiva is a face for that which has no face and is indeed beyond all faces. Their tradition honors Shiva above all the other gods but all the other gods are faces too, just as valid to their own devotees.
So…is my girlfriend a polytheist, or a henotheist, or a monotheist? From different perspectives you could say yes to all three!
Stephen said
Their tradition honors Shiva above all the other gods but all the other gods are faces too, just as valid to their own devotees.So…is my girlfriend a polytheist, or a henotheist, or a monotheist? From different perspectives you could say yes to all three!
Henotheism is a god above all other gods, no?
I think it’s odd to say Shiva is honored above all other gods, given the Brahma, Vishnu, Shiva Trinity. Maybe where your girlfriend is from, Brahma and Vishnu are not each equal to Shiva.
Yes, yes, the whole thing about the very powerful and very rich people being gods. Just to get on your board about humans capable of being deities, even though it is not mostly the rich and powerful who are Catholic saints. Okay, now that I’m with you for going there: human saints as deities, I think gods must have geological power.
Then you will say, humans seed clouds to produce rain and humans can cause forest fires, humans have some geological power; and, humans are destroying the planet and planetary life with plastic and cutting down the Brazilian Rain Forest.
Alright! Humans do not have the power of a god to create a nursery of baby stars. Humans on Earth have not created a nebula. Humans have not created a star with planets revolving around a star, with some of the planets having moons.
I have no idea what you mean by very powerful and very rich people in this context. Most of the saints are at least depicted as having led lives of charity, not great financial profit. Many Catholics regularly pray “to” saints, including the Virgin Mary. Generally, at least in vaguely Christian traditions, one does not pray to mere humans. It was one of the big triggers for the Protestant Reformation (along with the idea of indulgences.)
Henotheism is a god above all other gods, no?
Yes, there are other gods but mine is the best.
I think it’s odd to say Shiva is honored above all other gods, given the Brahma, Vishnu, Shiva Trinity. Maybe where your girlfriend is from, Brahma and Vishnu are not each equal to Shiva.
Well the Trimurti, the so-called Hindu “trinity”, is rather an artificial construct that came about through harmonizing efforts to identify Hinduism as a unity rather than as a collection of distinct traditions. It occurs very late and has never really penetrated to the level of popular practice. Brahma worship has been in decline for centuries and exists largely as a symbol of the Brahman, the undifferentiated absolute. Vishnu worship manifests itself largely through his famous avatar. Krishna, which is an extraordinarily large and active tradition to this day. What this “trinity” excludes is the popular worship of Devi, the great goddess, in all her manifestations.
What makes a person an “orthodox” Hindu is not necessarily who you worship but the fact that you privilege the Vedas, the ancient scriptures.
Stephen said
Allow me to propose an idea. monotheism by its very nature threatens polytheism. This the attempt to eradicate Akhenaton from history by the Egyptian priesthood.Well we need to be leery about ascribing fixed modern demarcations to these ancient sources. Ancient thought was unsystematic in the extreme. It’s very very arguable as to whether Akhenaton was a monotheist in the sense you mean. He is probably best thought of as a henotheist. Of course henotheism survived very late in the Jewish tradition.
An example that may illustrate the problem is Hinduism. It is generally thought of as polytheistic. In Hinduism the gods do exist yet they are not ultimate reality. For the orthodox Hindu ultimate reality is impersonal. There is an underlying oneness beyond the gods. For this reason many orthodox Hindus would claim to be monotheists! My girlfriend is from Southern India and they honor Lord Shiva. On first blush you would think Lord Shiva was the most powerful god but as high as he is esteemed by them Shiva is a face for that which has no face and is indeed beyond all faces. Their tradition honors Shiva above all the other gods but all the other gods are faces too, just as valid to their own devotees.
So…is my girlfriend a polytheist, or a henotheist, or a monotheist? From different perspectives you could say yes to all three!
From your post it seems it is still difficult to define these terms. Even today some atheists mock the idea that God v. Satan is monotheism, say the least about adding in a Trinity, saints, djinns, demons, etc, etc.
Paul even says something like ” we only worship God AND our Lord Jesus Christ.” Monotheism? IDK. Paul clearly believes in demons ruling the firmament. Also he has been to the third of seven heavens. What’s in seven heavens if not a pantheon of gods??
While the various writers do expound how great and glorious El Yahweh is, they spend very little time on the nonexistence of other gods.
The practice of mocking the ability of idols to answer prayer may not indicate monotheism as much as ridiculing idols or misunderstanding the purpose of idols.
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