Xeronimo74 said
Regarding those of the Jews who believed that there was some form of afterlife (in Sheol, for example), what did they believe was surviving death? A soul? A spirit? … ?
Geza Vermes adresses this in his book on the Ressurection. Shades, is the short answer, but I don’t think you can talk about Sheol as an after life, if only because it is bound to be confllated with modern ideas about an after life.
spiker said
Xeronimo74 said
Regarding those of the Jews who believed that there was some form of afterlife (in Sheol, for example), what did they believe was surviving death? A soul? A spirit? … ?Geza Vermes adresses this in his book on the Ressurection. Shades, is the short answer, but I don’t think you can talk about Sheol as an after life, if only because it is bound to be confllated with modern ideas about an after life.
and what was a ‘shade’ supposed to be?
I gotta check out that book of his then, I’ve read some of this others
Xeronimo74 said
spiker said
Xeronimo74 said
Regarding those of the Jews who believed that there was some form of afterlife (in Sheol, for example), what did they believe was surviving death? A soul? A spirit? … ?Geza Vermes adresses this in his book on the Ressurection. Shades, is the short answer, but I don’t think you can talk about Sheol as an after life, if only because it is bound to be confllated with modern ideas about an after life.
and what was a ‘shade’ supposed to be?
I gotta check out that book of his then, I’ve read some of this others
Hello. I can heartily recommend Vermes; it was his writings that re-ignited my interest. His Authentic Gospel of Jesus is a tour de force and, I know, highly regarded by Bart, who greatly admired Vermes’ scholarship. Also, he is probably THE authority on the Dead Sea Scrolls. I have half a dozen of his books, which cover much the same ground as Dr Ehrman: the historical Jesus, the origins of Christianity, the development of the early church, and doctrinal disputes and resolutions.
spiker said
From WikipediaThe inhabitants of Sheol are the “shades” (** you do not have permission to see this link **, but such practices are forbidden (Deuteronomy 18:10)
Vermes touches on this in his book on the ressurection. I waont spoil the read for ya
what’s an ‘entity without personality or strength’ though? 😉
and if they have no personality then how can they be summoned again? or will they get their personality and memories back at that point?
what’s an ‘entity without personality or strength’ though?
A shade, try to keep up, killah! 😉
SPOILERS:
According to Geza Vermes, the dead were always recognized when summoned as in the Case of Samuel mentioned above.
This is instructive because the Christian account of Jesus ressurection, is that he was not readily recognized by his own followers.
Remember we are talking about ancient Jewish understandings of personality etc
spiker said
what’s an ‘entity without personality or strength’ though?
A shade, try to keep up, killah! 😉
SPOILERS:
According to Geza Vermes, the dead were always recognized when summoned as in the Case of Samuel mentioned above.
This is instructive because the Christian account of Jesus ressurection, is that he was not readily recognized by his own followers.
Remember we are talking about ancient Jewish understandings of personality etc
a. that’s quite a circular definition then 😉
b. but Samuel wasn’t immediately recognized either, was he? at least not in his ‘summoned form’?
a. that’s quite a circular definition then
Actually, no
b. but Samuel wasn’t immediately recognized either, was he? at least not in his ‘summoned form’?
According to Wikipedia. This account is derived from Vermes book. Notice, there’s no talk of Samuel being unrecognized:
” His search leads him to a woman of Endor, who claims that she can see the ghost of Samuel rising from the abode of the dead.
The voice of the prophet’s ghost, after complaining of being disturbed, berates Saul for disobeying God, and predicts Saul’s downfall.”
Immediacy is not the issue. At least in one instance, Jesus (on The Road to Emaus) is met, talked to, traveled and dined with, but goes unrecognized. Consider too that this story provides the basis for the disciples own encounter with a risen Jesus; so one can’t really argue that Emaus is insignificant.
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