Corrected Title of Thread:
1. Who is Jeu? 2. Salvation and the Historical Gnostic Jesus
Jeu is:
- A great aeonic ruler or emanated authority
- Positioned below the Monad / Ineffable Father
- Responsible for:
- Ordering the cosmos
- Regulating soul-ascent
- Administering mysteries, seals, and passages
Steefen:
So, Our Heavenly Father of Jesus is not Yahweh but the Monad / Ineffable Father?
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Jeu functions as a cosmic systems manager:
- He establishes cosmic regions
- Oversees judgment processes
- Controls ascent protocols
- Assigns guardians and gates
- Administers the Treasury of Light, where purified souls return
In modern language:
Jeu runs the infrastructure of salvation.
Jeu and Jesus are not the same.
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Gnostic Texts that are not part of the Nag Hammadi Library:
- Greater Questions of Mary
- Lesser Questions of Mary
- Gospel of Eve
- Gospel of the Egyptians (Gnostic version, not the Nag Hammadi tractate of the same name)
- Gospel of the Four Heavenly Regions
- Book of Baruch (Gnostic version attributed to Justin the Gnostic)
- Paraphrase of Seth (distinct from NH Sethian texts)
- Book of Elchasai (used by Elchasaites; borderline but clearly gnosis-oriented)
- Pistis Sophia (and related Books of Jeu)
- Second Book of Jeu
- First Book of Jeu
- Dialogue of the Savior (sometimes classed as NH-adjacent but survives independently)
- Gospel of Mary (Berlin Codex)
- Apocryphon of James (also known from Berlin Codex fragments)
= = = =
= = = =
The Nag Hammadi Library:
Group 1 — Direct Gnostic Orientation Manuals
(“Apocryphon of John” group)
Texts explicitly explaining:
- The Monad / Source
- Emanation
- Archons as deception or ignorance
- Gnosis as the means of salvation
Texts included:
- Apocryphon of John
- Hypostasis of the Archons
- On the Origin of the World
- The Reality of the Rulers
- Sophia of Jesus Christ
- Eugnostos the Blessed
✅ Group 1 total: 6 texts
Group 2 — Polemical / Provocative Revelation Texts
(“Gospel of Judas” group)
Texts focused on:
- Deconstructing false salvation narratives
- Attacking ritualism, martyrdom theology, or apostolic authority
- Insider revelation through inversion or shock
Texts included:
- Gospel of Judas
- Second Treatise of the Great Seth
- Apocalypse of Peter (Gnostic)
- Testimony of Truth
✅ Group 2 total: 4 texts
Group 3 — Valentinian Integrative & Ecclesial Texts
(“Tripartite Tractate” group)
Texts focused on:
- Restoration rather than escape
- Corporate or historical salvation
- Integration of gnosis with a Christian community framework
Texts included:
- Tripartite Tractate
- Gospel of Truth
- Gospel of Philip
- Valentinian Exposition
- Treatise on the Resurrection
✅ Group 3 total: 5 texts
So, we have:
6 + 4 + 5 = 15 Nag Hammadi Texts that continue to explain saving one’s soul.
14 gnostic texts that are not part of the Nag Hammadi Library
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I had a fourth grouping:
Group 4 — Experiential / Ascent Texts
Purpose of this group:
- Teach the soul how to enact or experience gnosis, not just understand it.
- Emphasize mystical ascent, ritual knowledge, or seal/word/password practices.
- Often assume the reader already has some orientation (i.e., they are past Group 1).
- Function more like practice manuals or mystical liturgies than narrative or philosophical treatises.
Key Texts in Group 4
| Text | Notes / Function |
|---|---|
| Pistis Sophia | Complex post-resurrection dialogue; detailed ascension instructions; seals, prayers, and cosmic hierarchies. |
| Books of Jeu (1st, 2nd, 3rd… sometimes 4th) | Ritualistic ascent texts; include Jeu’s seals, passwords, and cosmic gates; train the soul in navigating aeons. |
| Zostrianos | Mystical ascent and visionary journey; emphasizes spiritual transformation and union with higher aeons. |
| Allogenes | Ascent and revelation; focuses on visionary knowledge of ultimate God and emanations. |
| Three Steles of Seth | Hymns and prayers for awakening; symbolic language; meditative / experiential orientation. |
| Prayer of Thanksgiving | Liturgical/ritual text emphasizing union with divine light; functions as a practice, not theoretical map. |
| Gospel of the Egyptians (Nag Hammadi version) | Somewhat ritualistic; presents cosmic secrets; overlaps with Group 2 in polemic but used liturgically by some sects. |
Group 4 Texts that are not part of Nag Hammadi:
- The Greater Questions of Mary
- Contains dialogues on soul ascent and gnosis
- Not Nag Hammadi; survives in hostile quotations
- The Lesser Questions of Mary
- Shorter, more ritualized version of the Greater Questions
- Also fragmentary
- Book of Elchasai
- Used by Elchasaites (early 2nd-century sect)
- Contains prayers, seals, and formulas for spiritual protection and ascent
- Gospel of Eve
- Focused on spiritual awakening through secret revelation
- Likely included instructions for mystical experience
- Gospel of the Egyptians (lost versions)
- Distinct from the NH tractate
- Likely included ritual passwords and ascent instructions
Quick table of multi-group texts
| Text | Groups |
|---|---|
| Gospel of Thomas | 1 & 4 |
| Gospel of the Egyptians | 2 & 4 |
| Pistis Sophia | 3 & 4 |
| Books of Jeu | 1 & 4 |
| Apocryphon of John | 1 (main), 4 (partial) |
✅ Takeaway
Many Gnostic texts cannot be pigeonholed into a single functional group. The divisions (1–4) are analytical, not historical. Overlaps show how Gnosticism often combines map, critique, and method in a single work.
Steefen:
Just as there was the theological Gospel of John about Jesus–not necessarily historical biography, there are Gnostic texts about Jesus–not necessarily historical.
So, it seems I can say: Mark, Matthew, and Luke are historical gospels, John, is theological, and the Gnostic texts are Gnostic.
There is no surviving complete Gospel of Thomas from before AD 73. Date the text circa 140-200 CE but with sayings coming from 50-70 CE. Written Greek fragments are from circa 80-100 CE into the mid to late 2nd century.
Steefen:
So, I can write about historical accuracy and say Jesus is a composite character of historical fiction.
Salvation comes from the Historical Gnostic Jesus as well.
Note, remove the theological/philosophical gospel of John, there is no Logos.
Maybe the Historical Gnostic Jesus does not exist.
Jeu who is a step below Jesus–Jeu makes his appearance in Sethian Gnostic texts (mid to late second century CE).
Sethian Gnostic texts began appearing in written form and being discussed by critics like Irenaeus around the mid-to-late 2nd century CE, with foundational ideas potentially emerging earlier (c. 100-125 CE), as seen in early hymns and the Apocryphon of John, a key Sethian text in the Nag Hammadi Library which itself reflects older traditions.
Well, if Paul gives us Proto-Gnosticism and Mark, Matthew, and Luke does not, maybe there isn’t a historical Gnostic Jesus.
Still, salvation of the soul isn’t comprehensively completed without the Gnostic texts which make valid points about salvation. How could Jesus have a ministry of salvation without those valid points?
His salvation was to the Kingdom of God that was supposed to descend at hand in his life or before the death of some standing at his trials.
Well, I thought of a problem.
The first half of Jesus’ ministry was a promise from a false prophet.
No, John the Baptist, you do not have to wait for another. I am here. Sight, will be restored to the blind, etc.
The Kingdom of God is at hand. [It begins now.]
PROBLEM: But the Wicked Tenants killed the leader of the Kingdom of God/Heaven/Righteousness.
All of the Saved people were supposed to enter into the Kingdom of God/Heaven/Righteousness after the Tribulation and the Judgement.
Well, the Tribulation included the Son of Man, Jesus, being killed. So, the Judgement and the Entering into the Kingdom did not happen.
People prepared the Way of the Lord, but he was killed/crucified.
The virgins did not fall asleep, they kept their lanterns lit to enter into the bridegroom’s party. Mt 25: 1-13 but the bridegroom did not let them in because he was killed by crucifixion.
Then there was the second Jewish-Roman War.
Then there was the third Jewish-Roman War.
Then once the Gentile Roman Empire became Christian, there was no more Tribulation to happen because the Tribulation was based on the Tribulation of the Jewish Revolt/s.
One can argue that there was no Tribulation from a revolt against the Empire, but as the Empire became Christian, the Gentiles received the vineyard from the landowner, God, as per the Parable of the Wicked Tenants.
So, Tribulation and Judgement now meant the tribulation of living and the judgement of souls happened when they die and have a life review (as in the books, Journey of Souls and Destiny of Souls by Michael Newton). The kingdom was supposed to be on earth, but now the kingdom was in heaven.
But sight being restored to the blind, etc. is not happening on earth as Jesus replied to John the Baptist, by agency of the Savior, Jesus Christ (himself).
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Maybe Jesus included this change in his agony in the Garden. He wasn’t only agonizing about being crucified. He was agonizing that there would be no Messiah through him on Earth–as was the understanding in the first half of his ministry.
BDEhrman
FreedomBen
evgendob
Robert
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