Richard Carrier, Author of On the Historicity of Jesus
Editor, physician and documentarian Lena Einhorn has written a book, A Shift in Time, arguing a new theory of the historical Jesus: that he actually was a violent rebel from the era of Claudius, who was later whitewashed into a pacifist from the era of Tiberius. My brief review here will cover her argument, its merits and problems, and what this tells us about the methods we need to deploy in studying this question.
** you do not have permission to see this link **
Steve Campbell, Author of Historical Accuracy
I will skim this blogpost and the comments. I might give it a fair reading, if not study it.
Congrats on being 5 years late to the party.
Lena Einhorn’s theory is not seriously taken. She has presented it at regional SBL meetings twice, and it has never made any impact at all in the field (probably why Carrier knows of it, since Carrier is also completely irrelevant and has made no impact in NT studies either). It has yet to pass peer review, and her only publications are pop-publisher books, and an article in Robert Price’s conspiracy theory periodical The Journal of Higher Criticism, a journal with no peer review, no academic standards, and is only useful as a compilation of nonsense theories that are easy to debunk.
Richard Carrier, author of On the Historicity of Jesus
Her conclusion is that Christianity actually began (and Jesus actually lived) in the 50’s AD., and that the Gospels conceal this by trying to relocate it to the 30’s A.D. in order to hide certain uncomfortable political truths about what actually happened. But they couldn’t fix everything, so the original chronology is still there, under the veneer of the fake one.
Steve Campbell, author of Historical Accuracy
“Christianity actually began in the AD 50s” when Paul is writing something worth saving for posterity.
Richard Carrier, author of On the Historicity of Jesus
I would aver that her theory of historicity stands on much better evidence, and is far more probable, than Bruce Chilton’s (see ** you do not have permission to see this link **, pp. 24-25), and he’s a well-respected and fully-fledged expert in Jesus studies.
Einhorn is well-informed, careful in demarcating evidence from conjecture, is modest in her conclusions, openly admits uncertainty, has a good grasp of the cultural and political context she is talking about, and has a fair enough understanding of the relevant linguistic issues—even though she is not expert in the languages, she relies competently on available English-language tools.
In conclusion, Einhorn exhibits a lot of good methodological principles most amateurs, and even many experts, don’t consistently employ.
(Speculations are not conclusions.)
Steve Campbell, author of Historical Accuracy
Wikipedia has the following:
The Egyptian was a messianic Jewish revolt leader. His uprising was quelled by the Roman procurator of Judea, Antonius Felix (ruled 52–60 AD), and the Egyptian fled, while many of his followers were killed and captured, with the remainder managing to flee and hide.
= = =
Einhorn does mention the crucifxions during the time of Felix even though the Egyptian Prophet escaped capture.
Steefen said
Richard Carrier, author of On the Historicity of Jesus
Einhorn is well-informed, careful in demarcating evidence from conjecture, is modest in her conclusions, openly admits uncertainty, has a good grasp of the cultural and political context she is talking about, and has a fair enough understanding of the relevant linguistic issues—even though she is not expert in the languages, she relies competently on available English-language tools.In conclusion, Einhorn exhibits a lot of good methodological principles most amateurs, and even many experts, don’t consistently employ.
(Speculations are not conclusions.)
Einhorn’s entire thesis is nothing but speculation. And I don’t care what Carrier says. Carrier is an unemployed blogger without a shred of credibility or even honesty for that point. And for that matter, you don’t exactly have any credibility either. You have a self published (and bad book, which I have read, it is barely even comprehensible), and Carrier runs a blog where he grifts people out of money and whinges.
Einhorn’s thesis that Jesus = The Egyptian, and that there was some timeshift is completely unable to be substantiated, and frankly the fact that Carrier thinks anything good about it is proof enough of how completely ludicrous it is.
Philip R. Davies, Professor emeritus of Biblical studies at the University of Sheffield
Former Director for the Centre for the Study of the Dead Sea Scrolls
“Most readers of this book, and especially New Testament scholars, will find its thesis unpalatable and even unacceptable. They should for that reason take its evidence and argument seriously, not just as positive historical proposals but as a challenge to traditional reconstructions of the life and precise setting of Jesus of Nazareth. Those who trust the Gospel portraits as reasonably accurate historically will encounter an alternative that challenges such trust; those who consider these portraits to be substantially products of social memory will also find valuable clues to historical events that may have fashioned that memory. At the very least, this book should make us think.”
Jackson H. Snyder
amazon review for A Shift in Time: 5 stars
And sure enough, Lena Einhorn … tracks down every “shift” I found and many more.
A few ‘for instances’: the birth of Jesus – over a decade later in Luke than Matthew,
several events in the Acts can be compared to similar events in Josephus, who dates them 20 years later,
Judas the Galilean and Theudas in Acts 5 – mis-dated and corrected in Josephus,
with the “Egyptian” of the Acts and the “Egyptian” of Josephus 20 years difference. …
Steefen said
Philip R. Davies, Professor emeritus of Biblical studies at the University of SheffieldFormer Director for the Centre for the Study of the Dead Sea Scrolls
“Most readers of this book, and especially New Testament scholars, will find its thesis unpalatable and even unacceptable. They should for that reason take its evidence and argument seriously, not just as positive historical proposals but as a challenge to traditional reconstructions of the life and precise setting of Jesus of Nazareth. Those who trust the Gospel portraits as reasonably accurate historically will encounter an alternative that challenges such trust; those who consider these portraits to be substantially products of social memory will also find valuable clues to historical events that may have fashioned that memory. At the very least, this book should make us think.”
Philip Davies argued for all sorts of nonsense things in his books, so I am hardly going to take his word (I have read Einhorn’s books, they are terrible). He also wasn’t even a New Testament scholar, so again, is not even qualified to handle these issues. Irrelevant opinion on multiple fronts.
Steefen said
Jackson H. Snyderamazon review for A Shift in Time: 5 stars
and have noticed the baffling time differences between historical events in Acts (for instance), Revelation and Josephus –
I calculated about 20 years.
And sure enough, Lena Einhorn … tracks down every “shift” I found and many more.
A few ‘for instances’: the birth of Jesus – over a decade later in Luke than Matthew,
several events in the Acts can be compared to similar events in Josephus, who dates them 20 years later,
Judas the Galilean and Theudas in Acts 5 – mis-dated and corrected in Josephus,
with the “Egyptian” of the Acts and the “Egyptian” of Josephus 20 years difference. …
Amazon reviews? Really? That’s it lmao. Come back with a peer-reviewed review from an academic journal. A random nobody on Amazon is a worthless opinion. When you can get me a widely respected scholar, CURRENTLY WORKING IN NEW TESTAMENT studies who condones Einhorn’s work, lemme know.
Philip Davies argued for all sorts of nonsense things in his books, so I am hardly going to take his word (I have read Einhorn’s books, they are terrible). He also wasn’t even a New Testament scholar, so again, is not even qualified to handle these issues. Irrelevant opinion on multiple fronts.
Amazon reviews? Really? That’s it lmao.
Steefen
I accept you saying, that’s it (laughing insultingly and using a cuss word).
I have had enough of you, laughed you off many days ago, decided you were an adversary, and have been ignoring you.
Maybe you will find other forum members with whom to interact, people who respect your mindset (I do not), people who appreciate your rude attitude (I do not), people who value your input (I do not), people who do not consider you an adversary as defined by this forum (I do), people who do not ignore you (I do).
You call a human being a random nobody with a worthless opinion. Not interacting with me do you do that.
“When you can get me a widely respected scholar, CURRENTLY WORKING IN NEW TESTAMENT studies who condones Einhorn’s work, lemme know?”
I am not in the least bit interested in getting you anything or letting you know anything.
I cannot stop you from dishonoring my making you an adversary and ignoring you. So, I have to every now and then remind you that your behavior is unacceptable, I do not value your input and I do not have to entertain you attempting to address me directly. You doing so is your wishful thinking and presumption.
The opinions of a professor emeritus of biblical studies and a director for a center of Dead Sea Scrolls are irrelevant to you. You think I graciously welcome you into a conversation with me. You are in error. I do not invite or welcome you into a conversation with me.
Good luck and good riddance.
Maybe you will find other forum members with whom to interact, people who respect your mindset (I do not), people who appreciate your rude attitude (I do not), people who value your input (I do not), people who do not consider you an adversary as defined by this forum (I do), people who do not ignore you (I do).
You call a human being a random nobody with a worthless opinion. Not interacting with me do you do that.
Actually, you quite evidently don’t ignore me. Also, please show me where this forum defines “adversary” lol.
And yes, I did call a human being a random nobody with a worthless opinion. Because that is exactly what a random Amazon review is. A random worthless review, that has no academic credibility whatsoever.
I do not invite or welcome you into a conversation with me.
This is a public forum. I do not give a rip if you invite me or not. If you don’t want to be in conversation with me, then don’t reply. It is pretty simple.
Greetings,
We’ve ** you do not have permission to see this link ** Einhorn for our YouTube Channel a few years ago regarding her theory. The audio is not the best (Skype at the time), but she is allowed to address her ideas without interruption. In our interview with Dr. Price, a mythicist, we asked him a question regarding her theory. He stated that if Jesus existed, he (The Egyptian) would be a strong candidate. Price then goes on to describe the relationships between multiple messianic figures and the Jesus of the Gospels calling him “Frankenstein’s monster”…So many rebels, so little time.
11thStory said
Greetings,We’ve ** you do not have permission to see this link ** Einhorn for our YouTube Channel a few years ago regarding her theory. The audio is not the best (Skype at the time), but she is allowed to address her ideas without interruption. In our interview with Dr. Price, a mythicist, we asked him a question regarding her theory. He stated that if Jesus existed, he (The Egyptian) would be a strong candidate. Price then goes on to describe the relationships between multiple messianic figures and the Jesus of the Gospels calling him “Frankenstein’s monster”…So many rebels, so little time.
Steve Campbell, author of Historical Accuracy
The Egyptian Prophet may be one of the historical figures that goes into Jesus, a composite figure of historical fiction. I do not think the Egyptian Prophet was the Biblical Jesus as one unique biological person.
Her shift in time was only moving Jesus back to the late 20s/early 30s from the 50s.
Her book discusses time but not place. While Jesus frequented the same place (Garden of Gethsemane) as the Egyptian Prophet, no one places the Egyptian Prophet in Galilee.
I would not give her book 5 stars.
11thStory said
Greetings,We’ve ** you do not have permission to see this link ** Einhorn for our YouTube Channel a few years ago regarding her theory. The audio is not the best (Skype at the time), but she is allowed to address her ideas without interruption. In our interview with Dr. Price, a mythicist, we asked him a question regarding her theory. He stated that if Jesus existed, he (The Egyptian) would be a strong candidate. Price then goes on to describe the relationships between multiple messianic figures and the Jesus of the Gospels calling him “Frankenstein’s monster”…So many rebels, so little time.
Price also thinks Joseph Atwill is convincing. Hardly credible.
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