I just finished reading the book “Did Jesus Exist?” By Prof. Bart Ehrman. Well written, easy to follow, insightful and fair assessment of historical Jesus. I also found the methods used to determine the accuracy of historical events very interesting and useful. I have one specific question after reading this book:
1) He writes that Jesus was anti family demanding hatred of family in order to join him.. (this was a surprise to me)
2) But he also indicates that historical Jesus asked people to follow the Laws (Jews Laws, Ten Commandments , …)
Does’nt one Commandment say to respect your parents? I appreciate a clarification of this two contradictory statements. Thank you in advance.
Jesus and Paul were just focused on their religious careers. They were not anti-family. Some religious paths do not require celibacy. Some do.
Hey Google, were the Essenes celibate?
The Essenes lived in various cities but congregated in communal life dedicated to voluntary poverty, daily immersion, and asceticism (their priestly class practiced celibacy). Most scholars claim they seceded from the Zadokite priests.
– Wikipedia entry for Essenes
Therapeutae:
A small Jewish religious community of men and women, originating and developing under the influence of the Hellenistic movement in Egypt toward the end of the 1st century b.c. Their Greek name, θεραπευταί, means devotees, persons wholly devoted to the service of God. The Alexandrian Jewish philosopher philo judae us is our sole authority for their existence and way of life. In his De Vita Contemplativa he tells us of their extraordinarily strict rule. They completely renounced the world, its treasures and pleasures; they handed over all their property to others; they practiced celibacy. In their Chartreuse-like retreat in the vicinity of Alexandria, these pre-Christian recluses lived in an encampment of individual huts. In their simple hovels they devoted themselves to contemplation, study, and fasting. – Encyclopedia dot com
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Behnam said
I just finished reading the book “Did Jesus Exist?” By Prof. Bart Ehrman. Well written, easy to follow, insightful and fair assessment of historical Jesus. I also found the methods used to determine the accuracy of historical events very interesting and useful. I have one specific question after reading this book:1) He writes that Jesus was anti family demanding hatred of family in order to join him.. (this was a surprise to me)
2) But he also indicates that historical Jesus asked people to follow the Laws (Jews Laws, Ten Commandments , …)
Does’nt one Commandment say to respect your parents? I appreciate a clarification of this two contradictory statements. Thank you in advance.
I’ve joined recently myself and found out that Bart doesn’t visit the members’ forum. You can, however, ask him directly on his blog. He’s willing to answer off topic questions and I think you’ve got a pretty good one for him.
Behnam said
He writes that Jesus was anti family demanding hatred of family in order to join him.. (this was a surprise to me)2) But he also indicates that historical Jesus asked people to follow the Laws (Jews Laws, Ten Commandments , …)
Does’nt one Commandment say to respect your parents? I appreciate a clarification of this two contradictory statements. Thank you in advance.
Good question. Where did the ‘hate your mother and father’ quote come from? Many of Jesus’ sayings are perplexing, even embarrassing, and the very fact of those kinds of sayings coming down to us in the Gospels are evidence that Jesus actually said them. Who else would have said them? Unlikely to be a pious Jew. Ask Bart as an off-topic comment to one of his blog posts, he tends to answer that kind of question.
Robert said
I suspect the anti-family statements were motivated at least in part by the apocalyptic expectation of the imminent final judgment. It was time to take sides and in this time of crisis, brother would be divided against brother, father and son, mother and daughter, etc.
The Apocalypse, the Tribulation was the Battle of Galilee defeat, the Jewish Revolt defeat. People were divided: should we fight for independence from Rome, which rebel faction should lead, which rebel faction is doing more harm, should we surrender to Rome? Should we not surrender to Rome and should we make suicide pacts instead. Sides had to be taken for reasons such as those.
I don’t think Jesus was anti-family or that he hated his own family. This is taking those quotes too literally in my opinion. I think the gist of what he was saying, if he said anything like this at all, was that following him was more important than the love and allegiance to one’s family.
As far as his relationship with his own family, I think there was an intentional attempt by the author of Mark and the Pauline communities to downplay both his apostles and his family because they were in conflict with Paul’s gospel. It was Jesus’ own brothers who led the community after his death, so clearly there must have been a close relationship during their lifetimes as well.
A relationship between Paul and Mark has yet to be firmly demonstrated. Their soteriologies are similiar but their Christologies are very different. The temptation to “connect the dots” is often more than we can resist.
By the time of Mark’s composition it’s certainly possible his community was influenced by Paul but it’s clear from Paul’s letter to the Romans that he did not found that particular community at least.
I think the gist of what he was saying, if he said anything like this at all, was that following him was more important than the love and allegiance to one’s family.
Robert can correct me, but when the texts in luke 14:26 says “does not hate his own father and mother…” there is no idea of hate x = love y more than x.
Robert, are there any indication of comparative present in Luke 14:26 ?
Behnam said
I just finished reading the book “Did Jesus Exist?” By Prof. Bart Ehrman…. I have one specific question after reading this book:1) He writes that Jesus was anti family demanding hatred of family in order to join him.. (this was a surprise to me)
2) But he also indicates that historical Jesus asked people to follow the Laws (Jews Laws, Ten Commandments , …)
Does’nt one Commandment say to respect your parents?
Good questions. I’ve wondered about that too. One of the most cogent responses to that problem is offered by Jacob Neusner, a Jewish scholar who somewhere said that he would not have followed historical Jesus if he had lived then because to do so as an observant Jew would have dishonored his parents. Here is a link to an article that presents some of Newsner’s views: ** you do not have permission to see this link **
Robert said
He thought the coming kingdom of God was effectively breaking into the here and now or at least in the very near future. His disciples would soon judge the twelve tribes of Israel and the Son of Man would judge all the nations to see who was worthy to enter the Kingdom of God on earth. Everyone else would be destroyed.
That sounds like bad news, but from the point of view of the disciples who gave up family for the sake of the kingdom, it was good news: “And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or children or lands, for my name’s sake, will receive a hundredfold and will inherit eternal life.” Matt. 19:29 ESV, (Cf. Bentley Hart Tr. “…will inherit life in that Age.”)
I wonder if the earliest readers of Matthew’s Gospel were motivated more by the good news of future reward, or the bad news of future judgement.
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