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Dale Allison has written commentaries on the Gospel of Matthew
Regarding The Historical Christ and the Theological Jesus by Dale C. Allison, Jr.
Scot McKnight, North Park University
“In the last 125 years there have been five truly epochal thinkers who altered the course of Jesus research: Martin Kähler, Albert Schweitzer, Rudolf Bultmann, Ernst Käsemann — and the fifth one is Dale Allison.”
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Dale C. Allison, Jr. in The Historical Christ and the Theological Jesus
The unexamined Christ is not worth having.
Steve Campbell, author of Historical Accuracy
I agree.
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Steefen
Ah, Paul Williams does bring this book up.
Paul Williams reading from page three of the book
Jesus did not speak the discourses in the gospel of John.
Steefen
Jesus did not speak the discourses in the gospel of John.
Dale Allison
My Christian education cheated me. / Albert Schweitzer (author of Quest of the Historical Jesus) did answer letters people sent him.
1963: Schweitzer believed and tried to prove to a Methodist pastor that Matthew was the first gospel and not Mark.
pick up at 11:03
Bart,
What did Albert Schweitzer get wrong to come to the conclusion Matthew was the first gospel?
Steve Campbell, author of Historical Accuracy
Dale Allison relayed to Paul Williams of Blogging Theology that Schweitzer had some Greek synopsis that he used to try to persuade a Methodist pastor that Matthew was the first gospel, not Mark.
Yeah, NDEs. And reincarnation too. There is a Division of Perceptual Studies at UVa (yes, really) that studies stories of NDEs and alleged reincarnations. They have been at this for awhile now. There are several Youtube presentations they have made, some dating to 5 years ago. Overall the presentations don’t directly tie into Christianity, but they do expressly reject what they call Materialism, the idea that consciousness is an emergent property that ceases when we die. Of course, at least some Christian apologists point to NDEs as evidence for their faith. The tales of reincarnation (maybe Socrates was right after all!!) are harder to fit into traditional Christian thought.
I personally side with the materialists, and am agnostic/athiestic in the way Bart describes himself, but the material is thought-provoking. The comment about Socrates just came from the coincidence that I re-read the Phaedo earlier this week. 🙂
Picking up at 11:03
Dale Allison
How can pre-existence be in Paul and John but not in Mark, Matthew, and Luke?
Pre-existence was old by the time Mk, Mt, and Lk were writing.
Let’s talk about something else. Paul, you brought up Mark 10: Jesus asks why call me good?
Well, Jesus being sinless is in Paul … before we get around to the gospel writers. Mark didn’t put 2 and 2 together when Jesus is baptized for the remission of sins? We don’t know.
No doubt about it Matthew edits Mark.
Paul Williams
Luke 1: 35 – based on the Greek, the son comes into existence. Luke is saying no to Paul, there was no pre-existing Jesus.
Steve Campbell, author of Historical Accuracy
Oh, here we go again with Luke disagreeing with Paul if not even re-writing Paul’s memoirs.
p/u at 28:42
Dale Allison
Robert Funk and the Jesus Seminar got rid of all of the Christology in the gospels. I don’t think that’s correct.
re: high falutin, Jesus sees himself as the future king of Israel.
Jesus sees himself in Daniel 7.
Steve Campbell, author of Historical Accuracy
Jesus, more recently than that saw himself as Enoch–if not Jesus (the Biblical Jesus did not exist but was a composite character of historical fiction) the gospel writers saw him as an Enochian figure.
Paul Williams
“The Resurrected Holy Ones” chapter.
Only Matthew has dead people coming out of their graves and hanging around after Jesus dies on the cross.
Once the nose of fiction is found in the gospel, you have abandoned all defense against fiction. Matthew makes this stuff up.
Steefen
So when the power of resurrection hit a geographical point, it not only pulled Jesus up, it pulled up other dead people.
Dale Allison
There is more than memory going on here.
Steve Campbell, author of Historical Accuracy
There is more than unsullied memory in Oral Tradition going on here, too.
p/u at 41:54 / 1:08:14
Paul Williams
Pauline – spiritual body resurrection of Jesus
Luke or John – corporeal resurrection of Jesus
Dale Allison
Matthew did not make it up (others resurrecting with Jesus).
I’m not in the Luke-John (Tom Wright and Mike Licona) camp.
p/u at 54:45
Steefen, Argumentation Specialist
Steve Campbell, author of the book, Historical Accuracy
Jesus was a composite character of historical fiction. Jesus could not resurrect in corporeal body.
(He was not a unique, biological–conceived by man and woman–human being.)
Jesus was not a unique, biological, human being who has life after incarnation. Jesus could not resurrect in a spiritual body.
(He was not a unique, biological–conceived by man and woman–human being on a spiritual journey).
Conclusion: Paul, Luke, and John are in error: spiritual body and corporeal body resurrection did not happen with reference to Jesus.
Paul Williams
How do your students integrate the historical Jesus and the religious experience?
These two elements are too unconnected.
Dale Allison
Students ignore me.
Some take additional classes with me and they have to put all this together.
Steve Campbell, Author of Historical Accuracy
Christianity must be taken to the next level or it will fail us. Challenges in this world require a higher level of defense.
So, yes, I can read your works and you can leave it to me to put it all together.
Dale Allison
I am one of 40 faculty members. You have to listen to all of us.
Students have to figure out what works and what doesn’t work.
Steve Campbell, Author of Historical Accuracy
Read my paperback book Historical Accuracy, start with the book description, the three professional editorial reviews, the book’s video trailer
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Oh, look at this: The president of Princeton Theological Seminary announces his retirement.
Hm, no, Dale Allison is not a faculty member for History & Ecumenics.
** you do not have permission to see this link **
Let’s try Biblical Studies, then.
** you do not have permission to see this link **
Yes, there he is Dale C. Allison Jr., Professor of New Testament with
Eric Barreto, Professor of New Testament
C. Clifton Black
Lisa Marie Bowens, Associate Professor of New Testament
Heath D. Dewrell
Chipp Dobbs-Allsopp, Professor of Old Testament
Elaine T. James, Associate Professor of Old Testament
Jacqueline E. Lapsley, Professor of Old Testament
Dennis T. Olson
Brian Rainey, and
Mark S. Smith, Professor of Old Testament Literature and Exegesis, author of The Early History of God: Yahweh and the Other Deities in Ancient Israel
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Well, Mr. Campbell, you want to do a second edition and you say Jesus is a composite character, why not add Moses to your list of people who compose the biblical Jesus.
Read The New Moses: A Matthean Typology by Dale Allison.
On my to-buy list at the moment:
The Gospel of Mark and the Roman-Jewish War of 66-70 CE: Jesus’ Story as a Contrast to the Events of the War
The Echo of Greece
The First New Testament: Marcion’s Scriptural Canon
Marcion and the Making of a Heretic: God and Scripture in the Second Century
The Historical Christ and the Theological Jesus
The New Moses: A Matthean Typology
Paul Williams
Dale, there is a bit of post-modernism in your approach: there are these different truths and in a sea of relative epistemologies, we never quite know where we are going.
Dale Allison
I’m just trying to be modest and humble.
My students have to read my book, The Historical Jesus and the Theological Jesus and write an analysis of each chapter.
Justin’s View: Wherever you find truth, you can attribute it to the Logos.
p/u at 57:13 / 1:08:14
Robert said
Robert said
Who is the neuropsychologist that Paul Williams is referring to at 1:03:50? He doesn’t recall his name, unfortunately.
He’s talking about ** you do not have permission to see this link **. Apparently his book was not well received by the scientific community. Paul Williams, Dale Allison and Laurence Brown seem to be unaware of the scientific criticism of Eben Alexander’s book.
Paul Williams, Dale Allison, and Laurence Brown seem to be unaware the scientific observations of a neurosurgeon (in the scientific community) are wrongfully being put down by others in the scientific community.
Disparate positions in the scientific community are common. Look at drugs that have come to the market and later have been recalled.
I trust Socrates that in the afterlife his life would be acceptable to Apollo.
I also trust Homer.
I trust Kundun meaning “presence”, is a title by which the Dalai Lama is addressed.
I trust Michael Newton’s Institute for Life between Lives. I also trust Columbia University and other universities that have courses in Parapsychology.
I trust observations of ghosts.
I trust observations of reincarnation.
I trust Ancient Roman military’s perception of the Manes (the dead).
I trust Mexican culture’s view of the dead.
Just because some human beings are programmed to be contrarians does not mean they have ultimate truth.
I trust Eschatology, the part of theology concerned with death, judgment, and the final destiny of the soul and of humankind.
Steefen said
Paul WilliamsDale, there is a bit of post-modernism in your approach: there are these different truths and in a sea of relative epistemologies, we never quite know where we are going.
Dale Allison
I’m just trying to be modest and humble.
My students have to read my book, The Historical Jesus and the Theological Jesus and write an analysis of each chapter.
Justin’s View: Wherever you find truth, you can attribute it to the Logos.
p/u at 57:13 / 1:08:14
OK, so I assumed that Dale Allison wrote “I’m just trying to be modest and humble.” From there, I assumed that you were responding to that in saying that your students have to read your book. I then went to Google and searched for that book, thinking maybe it was written by someone here on the forum and that I would perhaps give it a read. Instead, it was written by Dale Allison, and you were still quoting his words.
For the THIRD TIME I ask that you place other people’s words in quotations or blockquotes and indicate where it is that YOU are writing and what YOU are saying. For the love of the non-existent God!
And what in the world does “p/u at 57:13 / 1:01:14” refer to? You have me pulling out my hair trying to understand what you are saying in order to have any type of normal response.
Steefen said
I trust Socrates that in the afterlife his life would be acceptable to Apollo.I also trust Homer.
I trust Kundun meaning “presence”, is a title by which the Dalai Lama is addressed.
I trust Michael Newton’s Institute for Life between Lives. I also trust Columbia University and other universities that have courses in Parapsychology.
I trust observations of ghosts.
I trust observations of reincarnation.
I trust Ancient Roman military’s perception of the Manes (the dead).
I trust Mexican culture’s view of the dead.
Just because some human beings are programmed to be contrarians does not mean they have ultimate truth.
I trust Eschatology, the part of theology concerned with death, judgment, and the final destiny of the soul and of humankind.
That’s a whole bunch of trust in a whole bunch of contrary and contradictory opinions.
BDEhrman
FreedomBen
evgendob
Robert