Ralph E.
There is disinformation by omission in the works of Bart D.E.
For example, Jesus was a low-class preacher. Ehrman gets that from the gospels (the Catholic view).
Counterpoint: Jesus was called a king on numerous occasions. He was a prince who was feared by the king of Judea. Herod killed others in his own family who would succeed him. He would kill Jesus outside of his own family to prevent Jesus from claiming the throne.
Because of the birth narrative with the bringing of gifts from the East, Jesus represented Galilee, Judea, and the Parthian Empire whereas the Herodian line represented Gailee, Judea, and the Roman Empire.
So, Jesus was not just a low-class preacher, according to the New Testament.
Other Listener, KarlKarsnark
Bible says Jesus was brought gold at his birth. Would Magi walk from Persia to drop off $5 worth of gold? No, of course not. Even if they “only” brought a “talent” of gold, that would still be AT LEAST 75 POUNDS of pure gold ($2,000,000). LOL! Not exactly a “poor Carpenter”. Now, if they brought “a few” talents, which would still be a tiny amount to a “King”, then he would would have over $10,000,000 from day one….Not too shabby for being “poor”.
Steefen, Argumentation Specialist and Supporter of the Ehrmanblog.org
I’m going to score a point for Ralph E.
Jesus Christ is strongly identified as the king prophesied in the Old Testament in the Gospels of Matthew (see 21:5) and John (12:15) and he receives royal enthronement in the Letter to the Hebrews (1:3, 8) and the Book of Revelation (17:14; 19:16).
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(pick up at 9:17 of 1:03.28)
He should have waited until later in the video to admit he knows nothing of historical-critical scholarship. He ignores it and goes back to the original texts. Sure, thats the claim of every crank who’s ever been.
I suppose it’s way too late but Steefen you should avoid these types.
Ralph E.
So, if Jesus were a prince and later a king, he would have had aristocrats as friends.
Jesus, himself, was a wealthy aristocrat, given his gifts at birth.
Give readers a FULL evaluation of the gospel texts.
Steefen
If Matthew 2: 1-12 weren’t there (and not performed in most Christmas plays by Christian children), writers and scholars couldn’t be charged with leaving something unexamined.
Ralph E.
Galilee wasn’t backwater–Josephus was given command of Galilee.
Steefen
Herod the Great also has command of Galilee on his resume.
Ralph E.
Bart D.E. says the gospels date to the latter half of the 1st century.
Correct.
Why? ! ! ! is there this wait from AD 30 to AD 70?
Saul was literate.
Steefen
There were the Hillel and Shammai schools. There was the Quman community. They were reading and writing. There was Philo and his community.
I agree with you Ralph, on this point.
There was no birth of literacy towards the end of the Jewish Revolt and Jewish Civil War such that there was increased demand for the Life of Jesus that didn’t exist before. If anything, those wars would have interrupted schooling. No Jesus of the late 20s/early 30s was referenced or appealed to during the Jewish Civil War and the Jewish Revolt. Josephus (making his speeches against revolt) didn’t appeal to the biblical Jesus, Agrippa II didn’t appeal to the biblical Jesus, saying: we all know Jesus of Galilee from the late 20s/esarly 30s–whatever dating method he would use to give the equivalent time period, probably saying we al know Jesus of Galilee during the reign of Emperor Tiberius.
Ralph
The gospels were written in the AD70s and later because the gospels were War literature and post-War literature.
Steefen
Jesus has a prophecy about the destruction of the Temple WITHOUT mentioning religious rebels attacking Rome and Rome’s response to that attack? ! !
What? Simon (Gioria) will be led to his death but John will live (get a life sentence)–what is it to you, Peter?
Ralph
Ehrman misses avoiding the ruse that 40 years passes before Jesus of a questionable late 20s/early 30s time period.
Steefen
40 years of oral tradition without this “Jesus” being mentioned in the schools of Hillel and Shammai, without being specifically mentioned in the Qumran community, without being mentioned specifically in Philo’s community.
Ralph
Bart is giving you disinformation by omission.
Ehrman does not want to bring up too many stumbling blocks to the gospel narrative.
= = = Pick up at 29:57
Bart D.E., says Jesus was not a priest.
Hebrews 7 explains how Jesus could become a priest.
Ralph E
Joseph [of] Ari Mathia took down the body of a crucified man.
Joseph ben Matthias [Josephus] took down the body of a crucified man.
Don’t trust great researchers (scholars) who fail to tell you the whole story.
Bart says Barrabas was the insurrectionist while Jesus of the 20s/30s was the pacifist.
It was Jesus who told his disciples to go out and buy swords [Luke 22nd Chapter, 36th verse].
Steefen
That sounds like something Jesus of Gamala, Galilee would tell his men to do before going into battle with Titus and Vespasian [The Galilee Campaign].
Ralph E
Then one of Jesus’ followers took his new sword and chopped off the ear of a high priest’s servant
Mark 14: 47
Matthew 26: 51
Luke 22: 50-51
John 18: 10-11
A pacifist is followed by Simon the Zealot?
pick up at 55:52 / 1:03:28
In Conclusion: Summation
Disinformation by omission: Give readers a full evaluation of the gospel texts! Don’t trust great researchers (scholars) who fail to tell you the whole story.
1) Jesus was not a low-class preacher: he was a prince, a priest, and a rebel.
2) Galilee wasn’t backwater.
3) In the New Testament Gospels, it was Jesus who told his disciples to go out and buy swords [Luke 22nd Chapter, 36th verse].
Steefen, author of Historical Accuracy:
That sounds like something Jesus of Gamala, Galilee would tell his men to do before going into battle with Titus and Vespasian [The Galilee Campaign].
4) When the New Testament Gospels claim Jesus was apart from Judaism, they are saying Jesus, at best, was like Queen Helena, not a Jew by birth.
What came first, the Hebrew Bible or the translation of the Rosetta Stone.
The Hebrew Bible and the Hebrew Bible within the Bible coupled with the New Testament had a head start. It was solidified into the faith of the three faiths of Abraham.
Many scholars of the Bible did not double major or get a minor in Egyptology or Ancient Rome.
How much is there to learn from Parthia, Edessa, etc.?
Yes, there is more to know about the first century BCE and the first century CE An interdisciplinary education provides value added to a myopic view of early Christianity [within the Roman Empire]; it also provides checks and balances.
Stephen’s criticism has no value. What? Do not read every verse in the gospels of the New Testament and do not see the gospels in their context? You stay there while everyone else yearn for a higher view. Things look different when all the cards on the table are exposed.
…all the cards on the table…
Steefen I was being facetious but there is a serious underpinning to my comment.
Let me try to explain.
Specialists focus. Their work demands they spend most of their time down in the weeds. Specialists quickly learn the speciousness of absolutist, totalizing pronouncements. Everything we thought was wrong! Everything? Only the self-taught, self-described “expert” has the luxury to make these sorts of claims. All branches of thought seem to attract an orbiting cloud of such folks. They don’t know enough to actually contribute to the field but they want their pet hypotheses to have a veneer of academic respectability so they pick and choose whatever factoids seem to validate their views. Quote-mining reality, so to speak. If the actual specialist takes the time to refute their claims – an endless, thankless task – then the “expert” replies with claims of conspiracy and suppression.
Sound familiar?
Stephen and his lame excuses: “I’m a specialist who needs to focus so much I can only see one or two individual trees, I cannot take time and be holistic (seeing the forest).”
2380, you really think Stephen’s point needs illuminating. I don’t.
Being narrow-minded also has its faults–like missing the bigger picture and the consequences at the big picture level.
BDEhrman
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