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Did Jesus Think he Was the Christ?
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Omar6741

219 Posts
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1
June 29, 2016 - 8:42 pm

Claim: Jesus did *not* think he was the Christ.
Justification of Claim: The argument is based on two premises:
Premise 1: Jesus was descended from David.
Premise 2: Jesus believed that the Christ was not descended from David.
Conclusion: Therefore — unless he was severely logically challenged — Jesus did not think he was the Christ.
Justification of Premise 1: That Jesus was descended from David is explicitly mentioned in our earliest sources, such as the letters of Paul, it is not contradicted by any similarly early evidence, and it is not especially implausible.
Justification of Premise 2: Jesus argued against the idea that the Christ was descended from David,as reported in our earliest narrative Gospel source, that of Mark, 12:35-37:

35 And as Jesus taught in the temple, he said, “How can the scribes say that the Christ is the son of David?
36 David himself, inspired by[c] the Holy Spirit, declared,
‘The Lord said to my Lord,
Sit at my right hand,
till I put thy enemies under thy feet.’
37 David himself calls him Lord; so how is he his son?” And the great throng heard him gladly.

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Bgipson

-1 Posts
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2
June 30, 2016 - 12:15 pm

Omar6741 said
Claim: Jesus did *not* think he was the Christ.
Justification of Claim: The argument is based on two premises:
Premise 1: Jesus was descended from David.
Premise 2: Jesus believed that the Christ was not descended from David.
Conclusion: Therefore — unless he was severely logically challenged — Jesus did not think he was the Christ.
Justification of Premise 1: That Jesus was descended from David is explicitly mentioned in our earliest sources, such as the letters of Paul, it is not contradicted by any similarly early evidence, and it is not especially implausible.
Justification of Premise 2: Jesus argued against the idea that the Christ was descended from David,as reported in our earliest narrative Gospel source, that of Mark, 12:35-37:

35 And as Jesus taught in the temple, he said, “How can the scribes say that the Christ is the son of David?
36 David himself, inspired by[c] the Holy Spirit, declared,
‘The Lord said to my Lord,
Sit at my right hand,
till I put thy enemies under thy feet.’
37 David himself calls him Lord; so how is he his son?” And the great throng heard him gladly.  

Your premises are ENTIRELY incorrect

 

Justification of Premise 1: That Jesus was descended from David is explicitly mentioned in our earliest sources, such as the letters of Paul, it is not contradicted by any similarly early evidence, and it is not especially implausible.

Yet, Paul, writing at least 20 years AFTER Jesus death is not likely to have had any idea of what Jesus thought of himself.

Justification of Premise 2: Jesus argued against the idea that the Christ was descended from David,as reported in our earliest narrative Gospel source, that of Mark, 12:35-37:

The passage in question:

35 While Jesus was teaching in the temple courts, he asked, “Why do the teachers of the law say that the Messiah is the son of David?36 David himself, speaking by the Holy Spirit, declared:

“‘The Lord said to my Lord:
    “Sit at my right hand
until I put your enemies
    under your feet.”’[** you do not have permission to see this link **]

37 David himself calls him ‘Lord.’ How then can he be his son?”

 

This directly contradicts the first justification: Paul is contradicted by Mark according to your own argument.

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