godspell said
Can you explain why Jesus said the entire world would be transformed in the lifetimes of those listening to him? Because, . ..The trouble with hell–. . ..
The true saints . . . talked about how they themselves .. . the people they hate would get beaten up for all eternity).
Jesus believed the goats, . . .
The wages of sin is death–. .
I did not offer to explain why Jesus said that,
rather
if you really don’t understand [ the point of the Kingdom of God, if there’s also heaven and hell?] i can explain it
obviously those are 2 different questions
and then you go off on a tangent that I don’t really see how relates to either question, (trouble with hell, true saints, sheep goats wages of sin)
anyway your second question along with the tangential remarks gives me the impression you are not really so interested in considering an answer to the first, unless you tell me I am mistaken and you are interested the point of Kingdom of God along side heaven and hell, there no point in attempting an answer
Robert said Tom (if I may call you that), I think you should also explain where and how you are following Tabor’s views,
you may call me tom
I have no familiarity with Tabor other than
a) he thinks Jesus was buried and the grave possibly found ,
b) he has researched/investigated 20th century apocalyptic(?) sect
I accept that any particular of Paul’s views may not coincide with Jesus – my impression is that Bart thinks they do (well at least in terms of resurrection), specifically Bart said
seems Bart is implying dominant almost universal
I do not accept that Paul’s view of resurrection necessarily is the same as Jesus’, but even if we were to grant that they are I think Tabor still is arguing against Barts statement that
[immortal body] is definitely the view Jewish apocalypticists had.
and if
Tabor’s . . . view of Jesus’ ideas about the Kingdom of God, . . [is] similar to [mine].
good for him
tompicard said
I did not offer to explain why Jesus said that,
rather
if you really don’t understand [ the point of the Kingdom of God, if there’s also heaven and hell?] i can explain it
obviously those are 2 different questions
and then you go off on a tangent that I don’t really see how relates to either question, (trouble with hell, true saints, sheep goats wages of sin)
anyway your second question along with the tangential remarks gives me the impression you are not really so interested in considering an answer to the first, unless you tell me I am mistaken and you are interested the point of Kingdom of God along side heaven and hell, there no point in attempting an answer
Your explanation–isn’t.
There’s no point attempting an answer if you can’t cite real evidence to substantiate it, no.
We know Jesus didn’t say everything attributed to him in the gospels. So there are conflicts, absolutely–the understanding of what Jesus had taught was changing fast over those few generations. But even not allowing for that, going by the text alone–the case for the Kingdom is very strong–the case for an eternity of heaven/hell–pretty weak.
Sorry for not sticking with the lower case. I can respect that. And good arguments. Got any? 🙂
Fredbauck said
In another place on this blog, posters helped me substantially with a story I am writing, and so I am trying again. Since this story (the story of Dives and Lazarus, I mean) in Luke is one of only two sections of the NT (to my knowledge) that have been used to suggest that Jesus believed that the Judgment would be the day on which the fate of souls after death would be determined, I am wondering if the consensus is that Jesus might have really told this story, or no.
What is Dives?
tompicard said
where is the[second] section of the NT (to my knowledge) that have been used to suggest that Jesus believed that the Judgment would be the day on which the fate of souls after death would be determined
thanks
I’m thinking of the sheep and the goats, but I’m only saying that this story has been used to promote the idea of souls surviving the body, etc., admittedly the Luke story leads to that conclusion much better than the sheep and the goats, which doesn’t really imply afterlife at all. Some present-day Christians think it does, however.
BDEhrman
FreedomBen
evgendob
Robert
1 Guest(s)