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Has Dr. Ehrman commented directly on Carrier's "1 in 3 to 1 in 12,000" estimate of a historical Jesus?
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SGoldleaf

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May 17, 2021 - 11:40 am

A friend sent me a question about Carrier’s estimated probability of a historical Jesus, and all I could tell her was that Dr. Ehrman is of the opposite belief, that a historical Jesus is more probable than not, but I couldn’t quantify it any closer, and I couldn’t remember if he ever gave his own version of the odds.

 

Even if you don’t know a specific place that he has issued his own estimate, could you direct me to a link (article, debate, etc) where he addresses any of Carrier’s claims of Jesus’s historicity? Has he engaged Carrier in a debate or written extensively about his research? Thanks.

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Robert
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May 17, 2021 - 1:09 pm
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SGoldleaf

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May 17, 2021 - 4:23 pm

Thanks–I look forward to reading those links carefully. I appreciate the effort.

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Chris_Hansen

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May 18, 2021 - 1:18 am

SGoldleaf said
A friend sent me a question about Carrier’s estimated probability of a historical Jesus, and all I could tell her was that Dr. Ehrman is of the opposite belief, that a historical Jesus is more probable than not, but I couldn’t quantify it any closer, and I couldn’t remember if he ever gave his own version of the odds.

 

Even if you don’t know a specific place that he has issued his own estimate, could you direct me to a link (article, debate, etc) where he addresses any of Carrier’s claims of Jesus’s historicity? Has he engaged Carrier in a debate or written extensively about his research? Thanks.

  

No, because (A) Carrier’s calculations are really bad and based off a nonsensical reference class. He only comes to his calculations by ignoring historical figures and having contradictory methods. And (B) Bart has basically nothing to do with Carrier because the man is a terrible person who spends most of his time belittling and outright defaming (possibly even slandering in a legal sense) people who disagree with him, including Bart (which led Bart to have several public posts defending his reputation that he didn’t even charge for, because it was so bad).

This all being said, Carrier has been addressed so many times that he, at this point, has no credibility outside of secularist and atheist circles (and even there, the allegations of sexual misconduct against him have ruined his reputation in many of those). In academia, people really only cite him to be like “yeah his stuff is like an undergraduate conspiracy theory” and nothing more. There are some refutations though. Here is a list of just some scholars to critique Carrier:

Antonio Piñero

2019                Aproximación al Jesús histórico, Third Edition (Madrid: Editorial Trotta)

Bart Ehrman

2012                Did Jesus Exist? The Historical Argument for Jesus of Nazareth (New York: HarperOne)

Christina Petterson

2015                “On the Historicity of Jesus: Why We Might Have Reason for Doubt, By Richard Carrier,” Relegere 5, no. 2: 253-258

Craig Evans

2016                “Mythicism and the Public Jesus of History,” Christian Research Journal 39, no. 5

Daniel N. Gullotta

2017                “On Richard Carrier’s Doubts: A Response to Richard Carrier’s ‘On the Historicity of Jesus: Why We Might Have Reason for Doubt’,” Journal for the Study of the Historical Jesus 15: 310-346

Daniel Greenwood

2014                “The Alethes Logos of Celsus and the Historicity of Christ,” Anglican Theological Review 96, no. 4: 705-713

Fernando Bermejo-Rubio

2018                La invención de Jesús de Nazaret: Historia, ficción, historiografía (Madrid: Siglo)

Gerd Theissen

2017                “What Can We Know of Jesus And His Activities? – Arguments for the Historicity of Jesus,” Iesus Aboensis 2: 34-50

Hanzel José Zúñiga Valerio

2020                “Entre ficciones e historia: del Jesús histórico al Jesús galileo,” Revista de Filosofía de la Universidad de Costa Rica 59: 89-99

Hyekyoung Song (in Korean)

2019                “신학과사상학회,” Catholic Theology and Thought 82: 107-150.

Ivan Prchlík (refutes Carrier’s reading of Suetonius)

2017                “Auctor Nominis Eius Christus. Tacitus’ knowledge of the origins of Christianity,” Philologica 2/ Graecolatina Pragensia: 95-110

James F. McGrath

2013                Review of ‘Is This Not the Carpenter?’ edited by Thompson and Verenna, in Review of Biblical Literature,

                        ** you do not have permission to see this link **

                        “Selective Skepticism,” The Bible and Interpretation

                        ** you do not have permission to see this link **

2014                “Mythicism and the Mainstream: The Rhetoric and Realities of Academic Freedom,” The Bible and Interpretation

** you do not have permission to see this link **

“Did Jesus Die in Outer Space? Evaluating a Key Claim in Richard Carrier’s On the Historicity of Jesus,” The Bible and Interpretation

** you do not have permission to see this link **

“Rankled by Wrangling over Rank-Raglan Rankings: Jesus and the Mythic Hero Archetype,” The Bible and Interpretation

** you do not have permission to see this link **

2015                “Mythicism and the Making of Mark,” The Bible and Interpretation  

** you do not have permission to see this link **

2019                “Exorcising Mythicism’s Sky-Demons: A Response to Raphael Lataster’s ‘Questioning Jesus’ Historicity,’” The Bible and Interpretation

 bibleinterp.arizona.edu/articles/exorcising-mythicisms-sky-demons-response-raphael-latasters-questioning-jesus-historicity

Joseph R. Mulvihill

2017                “The dependence between the gospels and pagan literature with regard to death and return; towards a method for evaluation,” PhD Dissertation (St. Potchefstroom: Potchefstroom Campus of the North-West University).

 

“A stress test for the strong homogeneity thesis,” In die Skriflig 51.1: ** you do not have permission to see this link **

Justin Meggitt

2017                “Was the Historical Jesus an Anarchist?” in A. Christoyannopoulos and M. S. Adams, Essays in Anarchism and Religion: Volume 1 (Stockholm: Stockholm University Press), 125-126

2019                “‘More Ingenious than Learned’? Examining the Quest for the Non-Historical Jesus,” New Testament Studies 65, no. 4: 443-460

M. David Litwa

2019                How the Gospels Became History (New Haven: Yale University Press), 22-45

Martin Jakobsen

2014                “Er han oppstanden? En vurdering av Richard Carriers kritikk av argumentet for Jesu oppstandelse,” Master’s Thesis (Norwegian School of Theology)

Maurice Casey

2014                Jesus: Evidence and Argument or Mythicist Myth? (London: Bloomsbury)

Peter S. Williams

2019                Getting at Jesus: A Comprehensive Critique of Neo-Atheist Nonsense about the Jesus of History (Eugene: Wipf & Stock), 87-158

R. Joseph Hoffmann

2012                (historicist) “Controversy, Mythicism, and the Historical Jesus,” Academia.edu, ** you do not have permission to see this link **

Robert Bowman Jr. and J. Ed Komoszewski

2019                “The Historical Jesus and the Biblical Church: Why the Quest Matters,” in Darrell Bock and J. Ed Komoszewski (eds.), Jesus, Skepticism, & the Problem of History (Grand Rapids: Zondervan), 21-25

Robert Greg Cavin and Carlos A. Colombetti

2014                “Evidence, Miracles, and the Existence of Jesus: Comments on Stephen Law,” Faith and Philosophy 31, no. 2: 204-216

S. R. Hickling

2017                “An evidentiary analysis of doctor Richard Carrier’s objections to the resurrection of Jesus Christ,” PhD Diss. (St. Potchefstroom: Potchefstroom Campus of the North-West University)

Simon Gathercole

2018                “The Historical and Human Existence of Jesus in Paul’s Letters,” Journal for the Study of the Historical Jesus 16, no. 2-3: 183-212

Steve Mason

2017                “Nichtchristliche Texte,” in Jens Schröter, Christine Jacobi, and Lena Nogossek (eds.), Jesus-Handbuch (Tübingen: Mohr Siebeck), 159–164

                        “Jüdische Texte: Flavius Josephus,” in Jens Schröter, Christine Jacobi, and Lena Nogossek (eds.), Jesus-Handbuch (Tübingen: Mohr Siebeck), 165–170

Willem J. Blom

2019                “Why the Testimonium Taciteum Is Authentic: A Response to Carrier,” Vigiliae Christianae 73, No. 5 (2019): 564–581

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SGoldleaf

5 Posts
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May 18, 2021 - 5:19 am

Again, great. Thank you. I take it Bart Ehrman has never debated Carrier directly? I ask because my friend is not a sophisticated reader of English (it’s her third language) and the discourse level in a debate is often pitched lower than that in scholarly articles and refutations.

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Chris_Hansen

242 Posts
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May 18, 2021 - 5:20 pm

SGoldleaf said
Again, great. Thank you. I take it Bart Ehrman has never debated Carrier directly? I ask because my friend is not a sophisticated reader of English (it’s her third language) and the discourse level in a debate is often pitched lower than that in scholarly articles and refutations.

  

No. Carrier burned any possible bridge he’d have to ever debate anyone as well known as Ehrman. Carrier basically has ensured through his childish (and [allegedly] sexual predator) behavior that his opinions will never be more than fringe.

There is a paper attacking Carrier’s 1/3 argument ** you do not have permission to see this link **

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