Anyone want to weigh in on Alvin Kuhn’s argument regarding Christ, Christianity, and the Christos?
“while Jesus, as the date is now rectified by the findings of authentic historical record, could not have been born before the period of the governorship of Cyrenius (now changed to Quirinus) in Syria, as it was during his tenure of the Syrian consulship under Rome that Matthew states the world tax was levied by Augustus Caesar that brought Joseph and Mary to Bethlehem, so that prophecy might be fulfilled in the Savior’s birth in that town of Davidic descent. And this doubtful Quirinus is recorded as having reigned in Syria between the years 13 and 11 B.C. Herod, who, as the Gospel states, attempted to kill the infant Christ, was dead at the date of 4 B.C. The Church no longer disputes the necessity of shifting the date of its Founder’s advent on earth from four to thirteen years earlier. But this shift alone writes the verdict of error across thousands of pages of books which have hitherto based critical conclusions as to the authenticity of the events of Jesus’ life on the claim of the correctness of these dates. How nearly this emendation of date comes to overthrowing the entire edifice of the case for the very existence of the Galilean few have realistically envisioned. It shakes the whole structure of Gospel historicity so violently that in the opinion of many scholars it now lies completely in ruins.”
— Shadow of the Third Century: A Revaluation of Christianity by Alvin Boyd Kuhn
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Whipplebob said
Anyone want to weigh in on Alvin Kuhn’s argument regarding Christ, Christianity, and the Christos?“while Jesus, as the date is now rectified by the findings of authentic historical record, could not have been born before the period of the governorship of Cyrenius (now changed to Quirinus) in Syria, as it was during his tenure of the Syrian consulship under Rome that Matthew states the world tax was levied by Augustus Caesar that brought Joseph and Mary to Bethlehem, so that prophecy might be fulfilled in the Savior’s birth in that town of Davidic descent. And this doubtful Quirinus is recorded as having reigned in Syria between the years 13 and 11 B.C. Herod, who, as the Gospel states, attempted to kill the infant Christ, was dead at the date of 4 B.C. The Church no longer disputes the necessity of shifting the date of its Founder’s advent on earth from four to thirteen years earlier. But this shift alone writes the verdict of error across thousands of pages of books which have hitherto based critical conclusions as to the authenticity of the events of Jesus’ life on the claim of the correctness of these dates. How nearly this emendation of date comes to overthrowing the entire edifice of the case for the very existence of the Galilean few have realistically envisioned. It shakes the whole structure of Gospel historicity so violently that in the opinion of many scholars it now lies completely in ruins.”
— Shadow of the Third Century: A Revaluation of Christianity by Alvin Boyd Kuhn
** you do not have permission to see this link **
Debates on when people were born and disagreements on it are rather frequent in ancient writings, especially among people whose origins are obscure. Boyd’s argument really isn’t that great. Voltaire noted that followers of Lord Bolingbroke also stated Jesus didn’t exist based on the contradictions in the infancy narratives and genealogies. As with these followers, I will quote Voltaire and note that Boyd is “more ingenious than learned.”
sifubs said
Is there any historical evidence of Jesus’ existence?
There is no contemporary independent corroboration of the events described in the gospels. This is notable given some of the public spectacles described therein: Herod killing every firstborn around Bethlehem, dead saints walking the streets of Jerusalem, a dead man appearing to 5000 etc.
Josephus and Tacitus were born after Jesus’ death and confirm that there were early Christians (which we already knew). Josephus’ supposed confirmation of Jesus as the Messiah is suspiciously brief for the most important person who ever lived.
Paul never met Jesus and persecuted Jesus’ followers prior to his own conversion.
The gospels themselves were written anonymously and none earlier than 40 years after the events they describe.
Chris_Hansen said
Debates on when people were born and disagreements on it are rather frequent in ancient writings, especially among people whose origins are obscure. Boyd’s argument really isn’t that great. Voltaire noted that followers of Lord Bolingbroke also stated Jesus didn’t exist based on the contradictions in the infancy narratives and genealogies. As with these followers, I will quote Voltaire and note that Boyd is “more ingenious than learned.”
It is remarkably difficult to establish reliable birth and death dates even for people who were reasonably prominent 200 years ago. (I presume that people lied about their ages in all times, especially when it was easier to get away with it.)
JAS said
Chris_Hansen said
Debates on when people were born and disagreements on it are rather frequent in ancient writings, especially among people whose origins are obscure. Boyd’s argument really isn’t that great. Voltaire noted that followers of Lord Bolingbroke also stated Jesus didn’t exist based on the contradictions in the infancy narratives and genealogies. As with these followers, I will quote Voltaire and note that Boyd is “more ingenious than learned.”
It is remarkably difficult to establish reliable birth and death dates even for people who were reasonably prominent 200 years ago. (I presume that people lied about their ages in all times, especially when it was easier to get away with it.)
My great great grandmother (not even 200 years ago) has three possible birthdates and no solid record. Literally, just within five generations, with census records, birth records, and more, we still can’t get an accurate birth date on her. It is insane.
My great great grandmother (not even 200 years ago) has three possible birthdates and no solid record. Literally, just within five generations, with census records, birth records, and more, we still can’t get an accurate birth date on her. It is insane.
The only conclusion I can draw is that your great great grandmother didn’t really exist but was invented based on great great grandmother myths that were common in the region.
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