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Jeselsohn Stone and/or Michael Hudson's Jubilee Hypothesis
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Robert
7102 Posts
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61
September 1, 2020 - 11:45 pm
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Steefen
7710 Posts
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62
September 1, 2020 - 11:51 pm

Knohl

I have rejected the reading suggested by Prof. Hendel for the third word on line 80 for two reasons:

1) The last letter in this word cannot be tav. Nowhere in the text of the Gabriel Revelation, is the letter tav written in this form (see the table in Yardeni and Elitzur article in Cathedra 123, p. 164). However, we can point to several cases where the letter heh is written in similar form to the shape of last letter of the third word of line 80: See the shape of the letter heh in the word “elohim” in line 11 and the form of the heh in the word “haot” in line 17.

2) The syntax of the sentence suggested by Hendel “lishloshet yamin haot” is very difficult: We should expect to find a verb before the word “haot.” However, the sentence which is formed with my reading: “lishloshet yamin haye” is fluent and is very similar to the form of the sentence “lishloshet yamin teda” in line 19.

In sum, I may quote the words of Dr. Ada Yardeni, the premier expert in the script of the period, which were published on the BAR Web site: “I came to the conclusion that the reading suggested by Professor Knohl for the third word in line 80—haye, ‘live’—seems to be the only plausible reading of that word.”

= = =

Steefen

Join me as I join the position of the Biblical Archaeological Society which has not re-opened the issue since the above exchange, September 24, 2008. 

In sum, I may quote the words of Dr. Ada Yardeni, the premier expert in the script of the period, which were published on the BAR Web site: “I came to the conclusion that the reading suggested by Professor Knohl for the third word in line 80—haye, ‘live’—seems to be the only plausible reading of that word.”
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Steefen
7710 Posts
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63
September 1, 2020 - 11:55 pm

Robert

Yes, that is precisely the reconstruction and translation that Knohl himself now considers more probable.
 
 

Steefen

That is not precisely the reconstruction and translation that Knohl himself now considers more probable. Everyone but you are reading Knohl’s response to that letter.

The sick, pompous Robert with the cardboard crown can see if he can re-open the issue with the Biblical Archaeological Society.

Until then, ignore him. He has no credibility or weight on this topic, with his many deficiencies in argumentation, his insults, his rudeness, his untruths.

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LaoWho

68 Posts
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64
September 2, 2020 - 12:04 am

Well I’m sorry. You know, this limited form of communication has a lotta drawbacks, I get that. But it’s also got a lotta license. Everyone’s been so nice to me here and last thing I wanted was trouble. And I tried to leave him out of it. My wife told me on our walk to just channel all my energy on you and ignore the rest. He’s probly not gonna be the last person I piss off here, but I’m not gonna do it intentionally. That’s the best I got. I sent him a PM but don’t even know if it went.

Can’t believe you just dove right back in. You’re a workhorse. I can’t read what you wrote just now because I can’t concentrate. But I see Robert did, too, so I obviously made a mountain out of a mole hill, which sounds about right. My apologies to you both.

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Robert
7102 Posts
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65
September 2, 2020 - 1:05 am
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Robert
7102 Posts
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66
September 2, 2020 - 1:20 am
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Steefen
7710 Posts
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67
September 2, 2020 - 3:39 pm

LaoWho said
Well I’m sorry. You know, this limited form of communication has a lotta drawbacks, I get that. But it’s also got a lotta license. Everyone’s been so nice to me here and last thing I wanted was trouble. And I tried to leave him out of it. My wife told me on our walk to just channel all my energy on you and ignore the rest. He’s probly not gonna be the last person I piss off here, but I’m not gonna do it intentionally. That’s the best I got. I sent him a PM but don’t even know if it went.

Can’t believe you just dove right back in. You’re a workhorse. I can’t read what you wrote just now because I can’t concentrate. But I see Robert did, too, so I obviously made a mountain out of a mole hill, which sounds about right. My apologies to you both.  

Hi LaoWho,

I just gave your original post a 5-star rating in appreciation of you posting the video with the Biblical Archaeological Review cover article.

Let the fallen princes of rebellion live on.

When their stories are told in the character of one person,
we will remember the five shepherds (Athrongeus and his four brothers).
We will remember the three leading shepherds: Athrongeus, Judas, and Simon.

Line 70, “I sent to my people my three shepherds.”
Line 75, “Three shepherds went out for Israel.”
Lines 80-81, “… I, Gabriel, command you, Prince of the Princes …”

Luke Chapter 2, Verses 8-10, “And there were shepherds residing in the fields nearby, keeping watch over their flocks by night.
Just then, an angel of the Lord stood before them, and the glory of the Lord shone around them, and they were terrified.
But the angel said to them, “Do not be afraid! For behold, I bring you good news of great joy that will be for all the people: Today in the city of David a Savior has been born to you. He is Christ the Lord!”

Steefen

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Steefen
7710 Posts
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68
September 3, 2020 - 6:25 pm

The Gabriel’s Revelation stone is like a Dead Sea Scroll written on a stone. The video says both the Dead Sea Scrolls and the Gabriel’s Revelation stone both originate from the shores of the Dead Sea.

Those doing the writing (same writing style/method as per the documentary), is most likely done by the same community.

In this context, the Gabriel Stone could have a reference to resurrection via the word “Live!”

= = =

is Gabriel mentioned in the Dead Sea Scrolls?
No, but one writer called Gabriel’s Revelation “The Dead Sea Stone.”
** you do not have permission to see this link **

= = =

Let’s look at the introductory paragraph to “A Messianic Apocalypse” (4Q521) as it appears in the Penguin Classics / Geza Vermes translation.

“As in the Gospels, healing and resurrection are linked to the idea of the Kingdom of God. Line 12 furnishes the most explicit evidence concerning the raising of the dead.” p. 412

The verses of this section do not speak of Gabriel helping with resurrecting people. [In fact, Gabriel does not show up in the Index, but Michael does.]

When we turn to “The Heavenly Prince Melchizedek” (11Q13), the introductory paragraphs, the angel Michael is mentioned:
“The heavenly delivery is Melchizedek. Identical with the archangel Michael, he is the head of the ‘sons of Heaven’ or ‘gods of Justice’ and he is referred to as elohim and el. … Here Melchizedek [/Michael] is portrayed as presiding over the final Judgement…”

= = = 

There also is not a mention of a three-day resurrection or a resurrection after three days.

= = =

New Testament concepts of resurrection of people is not unique to Paul and Jesus.

Fragment 7 of (4Q521) includes: “… the Life-giver will raise the dead of His people.”

The Dead Sea Scrolls are thought to have been hidden in caves to prevent their destruction during the First Jewish-Roman War. If this is true, they pre-date the writing of the gospels. The content of the “Dead Sea Stone” (with additional reasons for being dated to the late first century BCE / early first century CE) also predates the writing of the gospels and the time period of the historical fiction character, Jesus.

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Robert
7102 Posts
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69
September 3, 2020 - 6:49 pm
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Steefen
7710 Posts
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70
September 3, 2020 - 10:54 pm

Daniel Chapter 9
24Seventy weeks are decreed for your people and your holy city to stop their transgression, to put an end to sin, to make atonement for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy, and to anoint the Most Holy Place. 25Know and understand this: From the issuing of the decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem, until the Messiah, the Prince, there will be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks. It will be rebuilt with streets and a trench, but in times of distress. 26Then after the sixty-two weeks, the Messiah will be cut off and will have nothing. Then the people of the prince who is to come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end will come like a flood, and until the end there will be war; desolations have been decreed.…

= = =

Christians accept Daniel’s prophecy of the 70-weeks because the prophetic events fit Jesus’ life so well. In general, people understand the 70-weeks prophecy to be literally foretelling of the Messiah. There are three primary reasons why Christians take the view that Jesus fulfilled this prophecy literally.

First and foremost, the prophecy reveals that the Messiah would be killed at Jerusalem.

Second, the prophecy reveals that the Messiah had to appear at Jerusalem before its destruction. Jerusalem was destroyed in the year 70 CE, which fits Jesus’ lifetime.

Third, the purpose of the 70-weeks prophecy as described by verse 24 is mirrored by the basic teachings of the New Testament. Many Christians take the view that verse 24 is a summary of the gospel story, based on the Messiah’s death foretold in verse 26. There is purpose in the Messiah’s death based on what Gabriel foretold.

** you do not have permission to see this link **

= = =

In November 1989, more than 35 years after its discovery and more than 25 years after Cross made his astounding declaration, this text, along with others from Cave 4 on the book of Daniel, were finally published. Only a few scraps of fragments from Cave 4, which contain but “five tiny fragments, all from the prayer in chapter 9 but none with more than one complete word” (Ulrich 1989:3), remain to be published (i.e., the fragments of the scroll designated 4QDane).

The fragments of the Daniel scrolls from Cave 4 were assigned for publication to Cross (Cross 1956:86) as long ago as 1951 (Benoit 1956:76). He was a member of the original group of editors of the Dead Sea scrolls appointed in 1953 (Shanks 1989c:18). But some time ago Cross entrusted the Daniel materials from Cave 4 to Eugene Ulrich of the University of Notre Dame (Shanks 1989a:57), a former student of his. In 1987 Ulrich published the materials from one scroll of Cave 4, namely, 4QDana. Now he has published the materials of the two other major scrolls, 4QDanb and 4QDanc.

** you do not have permission to see this link **

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Steefen
7710 Posts
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71
September 3, 2020 - 11:09 pm
The Prince of the Host in the Book of Daniel and the Dead Sea Scrolls

In: Journal for the Study of Judaism

by G Bampfylde – ‎1983 – ‎Cited by 17 – ‎Related articles

 

In the Book of Daniel and the Dead Sea Scrolls there is a supreme angelic being … Michael, the patron angel of Israel, or Gabriel, but our study will show that a …

 

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Steefen
7710 Posts
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72
September 3, 2020 - 11:11 pm

Zodiac Calendars and Angelic Teaching in the Dead Sea Scrolls

By: Helen R. Jacobus

 

One detailed story about the descending angels’ secret arts is described in

The Book of Watchers from 1 Enoch (1 En. 1-36) in Ethiopic, several substantial fragments of which were found in Cave 4. The fragments 4Q201, 4Q202 and 4Q204 contain the story of the rebellion of the Watchers, their names and their skills and the intervention of the four archangels, Michael, Sariel, Raphael and Gabriel, to punish them and bring about the Flood. The earliest fragment, 4Q201, was copied circa 200–150 BCE.

 

** you do not have permission to see this link **

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