
Well, if you want to know Bart’s thoughts on anything, don’t ask here. I question whether he even reads posts on this forum, but he sure never responds to any.
I doubt very much he believes Jesus was influenced by ‘eastern spirituality’ if by ‘eastern’ you mean the far east. Jesus was a Jew, and his enlightenment came pretty much exclusively from Judaism, albeit unconventional forms of Judaism. His enlightenment was Middle Eastern in origin. And his death was presumably caused by irritating the powers that be. Who are never enlightened. Anywhere, anytime. That’s why they’re the powers that be.

As I do scholarly work in South and East Asian traditions, I’ll throw in my cent and a half. Just for fun for those who may be interested.
Buddhism spread very quickly westward from the 3rd century BCE onward, with political patrons, monastic institutions and syncretic artwork penetrating into regions between modern Afghanistan, Pakistan and northwest India over the course of two centuries. In the sixth book of Caesar’s Gallic Wars, there is an interesting comparison between gods belonging to the Vedic and Roman pantheons. There are even Buddhist grave sites that are traceable to the later Ptolemaic Period, which ended in about 30 BCE, in Alexandria, Egypt. A South Indian king named Pandya sent a Buddhist mission to Rome in 13 CE, which delivered a letter in Greek to Augustus, and one of whose members presumably immolated himself in Athens, which brought some attention from writers like Strabo. The figure of the Buddha was known to some third to fourth century Church fathers. One of them, Cyril of Jerusalem, mentions in his writings a religious teacher from Alexandria, Egypt named Scythianus, who, according to him, traveled to India at around 50 CE. One of Scythianus’ disciples, Terebinthus, is said by Cyril to have preached about Buddhism in Palestine and Judea sometime in the late first and early second centuries CE before settling in Babylon. This figure, Terebinthus, is attested to be one other 4th century and a later 10th century text, but in those, Buddhist teaching is associated closely with Mani, and all three attestations seem to be complaining about Manichean ideas, so it is hard to be historically confident about much of this.
One of the difficulties of the early historical presence of Buddhism in the Greco-Roman world between the 2nd century BCE and the 4th century CE is that, despite the fact that we know at least a few Buddhists were in the regions of these realms, we don’t have much in the way of what kinds of intellectual or religious ideas were shared among these traditions, and what directions those ideas flowed in. The only real textual exception to this rule may lie with King Menander, a North Indian Into-Greek monarch of the second century BCE who finds his way into a major early Buddhist philosophical dialogue called the Questions of King Milinda (Menander). But apart from that, conceptually, we don’t have much.
Despite all these most intriguing connections, there is no evidence, and thus no reason to believe, that Jesus of Nazareth, whose mission was mostly conducted in lower Galilee and a bit in Jerusalem among predominantly Jewish communities, came into contact with any South Asian ideas or figures. The early writings of Christians, at least in the documents that made it into the New Testament and which constitute the corpus of the Apostolic Fathers, do not betray any familiarity with ideas or figures from South Asia before the third century. In a very general sense, the case might be a bit more murky with early Gnostic Christian communities or texts, but even here, we are talking about texts from the 2nd to 4th centuries. So, in terms of Jesus of Nazareth, as a historical matter, I think we can safely rule out any Asian influences on his life or thought.
The larger question about whether Jesus was “enlightened,” provided that being “enlightened” means different things in different traditions, may be a larger philosophical question, rather than a merely historical question.

mattros said
Bart is an atheist with regard to the Christian God. I am wondering his views on eastern spirituality and enlightenment. Could the historical Jesus have been enlightened and his interaction with non enlightened people caused his demise? I am wondering Bart’s thoughts on this.
Enlightenment is the “full comprehension of a situation”. The term is commonly used to denote the Age of Enlightenment, but is also used in Western cultures in a religious context. It translates several Buddhist terms and concepts, most notably “bodhi”, “kensho” and “satori.” Related term from Asian religions are “moksha” (liberation) in Hinduism.
I will be called Eurocentric, but the truth is that the “comme-il-fault” Enlightenment is the movement that from Europe (1685 – 1815; fron Early to late enlightenment) changed the history of mankind.
The question that needs to be asked now: was it forever?
It depends if we believe that humanity is definitely on its way to incorporating the values of the Enlightenment or if those of us who consider ourselves children of the Enlightenment are nothing more than a fragile island in the middle of a dark, tempestuous and irrational ocean.

The Enlightenment certainly produced much of value–and much evil as well. The secular faiths proved, on the whole, more dangerous than the traditional theistic ones. Burke was correct in saying that in uprooting established beliefs and traditions, without anything of equivalent value to replace them, we risked unleashing very real demons in our own natures. What he didn’t anticipate was the fundamentalist backlash against modernity–one overreaction leading to another (though Burke certainly knew of the dangers of religious ‘enthusiasts’, as they were called then).
Damned little difference between the worst of the religious and irreligious. Both believe they alone possess the truth and both are dead wrong in believing that.
Truthfully, many of the most important Enlightenment thinkers were in fact very religious people. And honestly, none of them would have passed muster as atheists to day.
godspell, some unknown wit has developed a term for people who express the attitudes you do in your comments. “Faitheist” You don’t have faith in a god. You have faith in faith.
It’s useless to rue the past. What happened, happened. If it could have been otherwise it would have been otherwise. We are still surrounded by ideas that are contradicted every time we walk into a room and turn on a light switch.
BDEhrman
FreedomBen
evgendob
Robert
1 Guest(s)

