is the following an accurate translation of mark
here is the relevant verse is Mark 7:2 which reads in Greek:
kai idontes tinas tôn mathêtôn autou hoti koinais chersin tout estin aniptois esthiousin tous artous
Which translate literally as:
and / they were seeing / some / of his disciples / that / with defiled hands / that is, unwashed [hands] / they ate / their bread.
The key word “unwashed” is aniptos (likewise again in Mark 7:5). It means what it says: unwashed.
The phrase “in the way” is nowhere in the text. Even the next verse reads only:
For / the Pharisees / and / all the Jews / if they do not wash / their hands / by fist / they do not eat / holding fast / the tradition / of the elders / and / when [they come] / from the marketplace / if they do not / cleanse themselves / they do not eat / and / many / other things / there are / which they have received / to hold fast to: / washing / of cups / and / pots / and bronze vessels.
You will see no reference to the words your translation inserts. Those words simply aren’t there. The phrase “to the wrist” is a modern attempt to interpret “by fist” [dative of pugmê], the more direct meaning of which is that they wash their hands with their fists (i.e. the way we scrub our hands, enclosing one in the fist of the other), meaning they wash well. Note that the disciples are not said to have washed less well, but to not have washed at all.
Hence what is being described is simply washing their hands, which “some of the disciples” weren’t doing–their hands were “unwashed” (notably, the tradition Jesus goes on to denounce here included washing your cooking and drinking utensils, too, cf. Mark 7:4, another obvious vector for germs that Jesus was evidently unaware of).
questions
1. so does jesus think that the pharisee practices with water were “tradition of men”?
quote
8 You leave the commandment of God, and hold fast the tradition of men.”
?
2. if jesus was a god wouldn’t it be a teachable moment that sinful thoughts were detrimental to ones living and that the pharisees were right in washing their hands before they eat?
March 11, 2016
1. Yes. 2. He thought it should not be a religious requirement.
comment : if there was not a religious ritualistic hand washing before meals would there be any washing at all?
would people even bother to wash their hands?
if some of the disiples were not practicing “traditions of men” such as hand washing before meals, then this means it would not have been important practice in the jesus movement?
if it was not a religious requirement would there be any requirement to hand washing at all?
i mean without religious ritual would there even be washing hands before meals?
if we carefully read marks text he seems to say that the disciples hands were unwashed does this not indicate that jesus did not teach hand washing before meals?
March 12, 2016
No, no requirements to wash hands. We obviously wash hands today for other reasons.
comment:
my point was god almighty in the flesh didn’t know the other reasons.
I know what your point was, kas. I can read English. The question here was not whether Jews washed their hands. The question was whether Jesus. really meant to discourage the practice.
How carefully one reads the text, says nothing about the prospect of redaction or the point Jesus might have been making(if he even, ever actually said what Mark attributes to him).
All that would have been understood from actually reading my posts
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