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Location of the Second Temple and Antonia Fortress - Roman military presence in Jerusalem
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Stephen
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March 21, 2022 - 8:51 pm

Things were quiet enough to be managed without much risk. 

Certainly there were troubles but I think the tendency on the part of a lot of folks is to read the events in the 60s leading up to the First Revolt back into Jesus’ day.   It’s useful to remember that Paul, writing in the 50s, could still have a relatively benign view of Rome.       

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JustMe

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March 24, 2022 - 4:55 pm

Stephen said
 

… I think the tendency on the part of a lot of folks is to read the events in the 60s leading up to the First Revolt back into Jesus’ day.   It’s useful to remember that Paul, writing in the 50s, could still have a relatively benign view of Rome.       

  

It makes sense, and it also dampens the tension that I tend to see as tangible and somehow a sign of an imminent uprising in the eyes of Pilate. Too much too early.

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TTHorne56

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March 25, 2022 - 11:11 pm

Stephen said
I’ve heard Prof Fredericksen speak locally on a book tour and I’ve read one of her books.  She is Jewish and focuses much of her work on the Jewish milieu of Jesus. My impression, which I would be happy to have someone confirm or contradict, is that she does not accept the historicity of Judas and the betrayal of Jesus.  The character of Judas would have developed perhaps as part of the attempt to shift blame from Rome to the Jews for the crucifixion.  My “pet theory” of course calls the existence of Judas into question as it does the historicity of the trial before the Sanhedrin.   

  

“Whether the night of the seder or the night before, Jesus would have been apprehended surreptitiously, perhaps by a mixed posse of Temple guards and Roman soldiers led to the place of ambush by a disaffected disciple.”  Jesus of Nazareth:  King of the Jews, pp. 257-258 (scriptural citations omitted).

This book is Dr. Fredricksen’s detailed analysis of how and why Jesus, and Jesus alone, was crucified by Pilate.  Under her analysis a betrayer makes sense from the desire of the authorities to take Jesus into custody out of sight of the crowds.  They would have needed someone to take them to him under cover of night, as it were.  She does not make any comment about the identity of the betrayer in this book. 

In From Jesus to Christ, which is more concerned about how Jesus became identified as the Christ, she also mentions a betrayer, and notes that Judas is identified as the betrayer in the gospels, but does not discuss the historicity of the identification.  Again, the betrayer appears in the context of a surreptitious arrest.  From Jesus to Christ, pp. 115-16 (2nd Ed., Yale University Press)

I hope that is somewhat helpful.

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Stephen
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March 26, 2022 - 7:37 pm

Thanks that is interesting.

“Whether the night of the seder or the night before, Jesus would have been apprehended surreptitiously, perhaps by a mixed posse of Temple guards and Roman soldiers led to the place of ambush by a disaffected disciple.”  Jesus of Nazareth:  King of the Jews, pp. 257-258 (scriptural citations omitted).

From a historical perspective my objection to this remains. It presupposes that the fate of Jesus was privileged in some way.  It makes great literary drama but how historical is it?  We know that Jesus was special to his own followers but why would Jesus be singled out for special attention by the Temple authorities, much less the Romans?  The act that Jesus was claimed to have committed, a disturbance in the Temple, would have resulted in his immediate arrest.  If the disturbance in the Temple was not historical then what would have caused this special interest from the authorities?  Seems to me there is an inherent contradiction here.    

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TTHorne56

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March 26, 2022 - 9:17 pm

It’s a good question.  In her account Jesus had no extraordinary message, much less one that would have been problematic from a Jewish perspective of his time.  His message, like John the Baptist’s, was “Repent, the End is near!” She does think that John’s account of Jesus’ itinerary is more likely true than Mark’s.  Jesus had at least some followers in Jerusalem, and both Pilate and the priests were aware of him from his previous visits.

But Pilate’s concern is not Jesus himself.  Jesus has never held himself out in any way that was a threat to Rome, and his small band of disciples was small and unarmed.  Pilates’ concern was the Passover crowd in Jerusalem.  She posits that the crowd saw him as the Messiah and King of the Jews, even though he had never made those claims for himself, and really expected the End to come in that setting.  It is also possible the priests sensed that fervor in the crowd and communicated that to Pilate.

Pilate’s crucifixion of Jesus was intended to send a message to that crowd and defuse whatever tension was in the air.  You say this man is your Messiah and King?  Look what I have done to him.

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