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On Historicity
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vergari

370 Posts
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August 9, 2018 - 3:18 pm

One of the chief justifications advanced for skepticism of the historical accuracy of the NT is that accounts of the same events “contradict” one another in different texts.  In other posts in this forum, I have tried to argue that dissimilarity of this sort should not be construed as evidence of inaccuracy; quite the opposite.  Obviously, the criterion of dissimilarity has traditionally been considered an indicator of accuracy.

Anyway . . . . I just came across a somewhat modern example to illustrate this point.  As film hobbyists know, a famous legend from the career of Marlon Brando is that Brando was cast in the film Apocalypse Now, with a $1M/week salary, after having lied about his enjoyment of the source material for the film: the novella Heart of Darkness by Joseph Conrad (with the setting changed from 19th Century Congo to 1960s Vietnam).  ** you do not have permission to see this link **.

So what do we make of this claim?

 

DENNIS HOPPER:

Well, here is a version of the story from Dennis Hopper from the early 1990s on The Bob Costas Show (starting at the 3:23 mark): ** you do not have permission to see this link **  Note that, in Hopper’s version of the story, the film’s director, Francis Ford Coppola, had been bugging Brando all day after finding out Brando had not read Heart of Darkness; and then, soon afterward, the production is shut down for two weeks, while Brando and Coppola figure out the ending.

 

FRANCIS FORD COPPOLA:

And now here is Coppola’s version, as recounted about a decade years later, starting at the 6:15 mark: ** you do not have permission to see this link **  Note that, in Coppola’s version, Brando unexpectedly shows up, on the last day of his contract, bald and ready to shoot, and only then Coppola learns that Brando had never read Heart of Darkness (until the very night before).  Coppola, in this version, also mentions that Brando had been insisting on changing the name of his character from Kurtz (the name of the character in Heart of Darkness) to “Leighley,” and that much of the film was shot using the name “Leighly.”

 

ACADEMIC, SUSAN MIZRUCH

At this point, we will insert a completely different version, not based on eyewitness recollection, but instead based on inference drawn from contemporary documents.  In 2004, Brando died.  In the aftermath of his death, his personal records became available.  Here is ** you do not have permission to see this link ** rebutting the legend: 

Contrary to Coppola’s claim, Brando read Conrad’s Heart of Darkness (his 4,000 book library contained multiple editions of the novel). He shaved his head, deliberately, to suit Conrad’s description of Colonel Kurtz, Brando’s character, as “impressively bald.”

Brando’s reading to prepare for the film included numerous other books and materials: The Pentagon Papers, writings by anthropologist James Frazer and philosopher Hannah Arendt, T.S. Eliot’s “Hollow Men,” first-person accounts of the U.S. Vietnam mission, and more.

Coppola recognized how crucial Brando’s knowledge was to his film. Writing the actor just before he arrived on set, Coppola admitted that directing the film had become a “nightmare” that he would rely on Brando to get through. “Together we can accomplish anything,” he wrote — “even make a movie about Vietnam.”

In fact, Coppola relied on Brando so much that Brando himself … became uncomfortable with the authority he was granted. As he wrote to Coppola in a letter, “It’s not really my job to be involved in the overall concept of the script.”

Regardless of Brando’s discomfort, audiotapes of discussions between the two confirm that Coppola drew heavily on Brando’s vision of Kurtz, and of the whole film.

 

WALTER MURCH

To this, we will add one final version, that of the eyewitness variety from the film’s editor, Walter Murch. In Murch’s version from 2017 (available here: ** you do not have permission to see this link **), Brando insisted on renaming Kurtz to “Leighley” immediately after reading a pre-shooting draft of the script, and as a condition of agreeing to the film.  After that, the first 80% of the film is shot using the name “Leighley.”  But when it came time for Brando to shoot his scenes, Coppola and Brando began fighting over the script and production shut down, during which time Coppola kept trying to refer Brando to the source material for the character in Heart of Darkness, to which Brando would respond that he hated the book.  And then, again unexpectedly, Brando appears on set with a shaved head and referring to his character again as Kurtz, instead of “Leighley.”  On explaining to Coppola why the sudden change, Brando says he picked up Heart of Darkness, read it, and found it to be a great book.

 

ANALYSIS

So what to make of this legend?  We have four different versions, including one which says it’s fictional.

Can we figure out what really happened?  Had Brando read Heart of Darkness prior to shaving his head on set?

Note that while there are many similarities in the different stories, there are also direct contradictions:

— Had Brando read the book before before the film began production?

— Did Brando tell Coppola he had never read Heart of Darkess?

— If so, did Brando admit to Coppola that he had never read the book only after shaving his head (as Coppola suggests) or prior to production suspending (like Hopper and Murch suggest)?

 

Susan Mizruch would have us believe that Brando had read Heart of Darkness before production began.  In support, she points to the various copies of the books in Brando’s library, script notes Brando made, and audio recordings where Coppola draws on Brando vision for the character.

Unfortunately, we haven’t seen those notes, nor heard the tapes, so it’s kind of impossible to tell if there is substantial proof that Brando had actually read the book, or was just winging it.  And, certainly, the mere fact that Brando had the books in his library isn’t proof he read a copy.  Indeed, we don’t even know how old those copies are.

However, we can’t just totally dismiss what Mizruch presents.

 

* * *

 

So, what is the best way to interpret the evidence? 

 

  

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Chromakey

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August 10, 2018 - 4:47 pm

I think the sometimes almost painful way the gospels strain to make things fit, like desperately finding a way to have Jesus born in Bethlehem by way of a story that makes no sense – is to me a marker there was a real Jesus. Otherwise, why not just have him born there in the first place? Same with the different family trees given for Joseph. That makes me think there was a Joseph. However, other than a few examples like that, most of the contradictions in different accounts neither make me believe them more or less. I take the individual tales and stories on a case by case basis. I believe less than 25% of the things attributed to Jesus in the NT are things he actually said and did, so that doesn’t leave a whole lot other than the most basic details of his life.

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vergari

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August 10, 2018 - 7:11 pm

Steve Clark said
I think the sometimes almost painful way the gospels strain to make things fit, like desperately finding a way to have Jesus born in Bethlehem by way of a story that makes no sense – is to me a marker there was a real Jesus. Otherwise, why not just have him born there in the first place? Same with the different family trees given for Joseph. That makes me think there was a Joseph. However, other than a few examples like that, most of the contradictions in different accounts neither make me believe them more or less. I take the individual tales and stories on a case by case basis. I believe less than 25% of the things attributed to Jesus in the NT are things he actually said and did, so that doesn’t leave a whole lot other than the most basic details of his life.  

Interesting thoughts.  I’m pretty much with you.

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gavriel

380 Posts
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August 27, 2018 - 5:33 pm

vergari said
One of the chief justifications advanced for skepticism of the historical accuracy of the NT is that accounts of the same events “contradict” one another in different texts.  In other posts in this forum, I have tried to argue that dissimilarity of this sort should not be construed as evidence of inaccuracy; quite the opposite.  Obviously, the criterion of dissimilarity has traditionally been considered an indicator of accuracy.  [ partial quote]
    

Well, contradictions may or may not point to a historical core but they are certainly not evidence of accuracy. You may however be able to data mine some pieces of information that may be considered accurate, by applying certain criteria.  The primary texts themselves are rather garbled, historically.

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