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Reconstructing God's Answer To Jesus' Prayer In Gethsemane
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john76

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January 21, 2017 - 4:56 pm
“Reconstructing God’s Answer To Jesus’ Prayer In Gethsemane:”
From Jesus’ desperate prayer in Gethsemane, we learn that Jesus, fundamentally, didn’t want to die, and on top of that did not believe he needed to die for God’s plan/goal to be realized:
36 “Abba, Father,” he said, “everything is possible for you. Take this cup from me. Yet not what I will, but what you will.” (Mark 14:36)
Jesus desperately begged God to spare his life.  Whatever Jesus thought God said in response to this prayer, Jesus gained the courage to carry out his mission.
Jesus probably thought God told him that God would send a divine being to save him from the cross.  Once he was on the cross, however, Jesus became convinced that God had abandoned him, and called out:
“Eloi, Eloi, lema sabachthani?” which means, “My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me?” (Mark 15:34)
Jesus was desperate for God to send him a divine rescuer, who he thought might be Elijah, the great prophet of old:
35When some of the bystanders heard it, they began saying, “Behold, He is calling for Elijah.” 36Someone ran and filled a sponge with sour wine, put it on a reed, and gave Him a drink, saying, “Let us see whether Elijah will come to take Him down.” (Mark 15:35-36)
The divine rescuer never showed up and Jesus died.  Had God broke his promise to save Jesus?  No!
Just as the masses didn’t understand the message of Jesus because he spoke in parables, Jesus didn’t understand that when God said in answer to his desperate prayer He would save him, it would not be through divine intervention, but rather glorious resurrection. 
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Stephen
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January 23, 2017 - 9:46 am

Well I think we can infer from context that Mark was written for a community undergoing some degree of distress.  Jesus is providing an example of how to respond to such distress.  Whether this is a purely literary construct or reflects anything that might have actually happened is an interesting question.  How would the writer have known what happened?  The disciples were asleep and Jesus was arrested almost immediately afterwards.

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john76

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January 26, 2017 - 4:22 pm

Jesus’ last actions in Mark also speak against the idea that Jesus was welcoming of his death so he could calmly complete his mission: “With a LOUD CRY, Jesus breathed his last (Mark 15:37).”

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john76

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January 27, 2017 - 5:24 pm

Stephen said
Well I think we can infer from context that Mark was written for a community undergoing some degree of distress.  Jesus is providing an example of how to respond to such distress.  Whether this is a purely literary construct or reflects anything that might have actually happened is an interesting question.  How would the writer have known what happened?  The disciples were asleep and Jesus was arrested almost immediately afterwards.  

Stephen said
Well I think we can infer from context that Mark was written for a community undergoing some degree of distress.  Jesus is providing an example of how to respond to such distress.  Whether this is a purely literary construct or reflects anything that might have actually happened is an interesting question.  How would the writer have known what happened?  The disciples were asleep and Jesus was arrested almost immediately afterwards.  

Just because Mark said it in his narrative doesn’t mean it actually happened that way, so there is no way to know if the disciples really were asleep.  Or maybe Jesus had shared what he was going to be praying about with the disciples before it happened.

When Mark places the words “My God, My God, why have you forsaken me?” on Jesus’ lips, he is citing Psalm 22.  This does NOT mean that Mark’s use of the words of Psalm 22 necessarily need to be interpreted in the exact sense that the words were in the original Psalm 22.  The gospel writers were not necessarily staying with the “original sense” of bible passages when they cited them.  For example, in Matthew 2:15, Matthew cites Hosea 11:1 (“Out of Egypt I have called my son”) to give pedigree to his story of Jesus’ childhood time in Egypt.  But in Hosea, the word “son” refers to Israel, not to a child (let alone Jesus).  So we need to look beyond the literal meaning of cited passages by gospel writers to determine what those citations meant to them.

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